Car won't start...AGAIN!

EvoStevo · #1 09-01-2009, 12:33 PM

So I pull into the parking garage at my office and it's pretty packed. I'm looking for a spot and I see one so I start pulling into it. As I'm pulling in, I see another car pulling out of a spot that's closer to the elevator. I throw it in reverse, start to back out and the car stalls. I stalled it yesterday too (thought I was in 1st gear but was actually in 3rd...I had a long day), but was able to get it started again. Today however, it just kept cranking and wouldn't fire up. I had my foot mashed on the accelerator like normal and would let it turn over for 10-15 seconds each time. I finally had to push it into the spot as best as I could and almost hit the concrete pillar in front of me. It's now parked crooked as hell and I'm worried it's going to get towed by the parking nazis. My office friends aren't here today, so I have no one I feel comfortable asking to help push the car. /end rant

So anyway, what was strange to me was that the glow plug light wouldn't come on. I had only driven for about ten minutes on the highway, so maybe the engine wasn't warm enough to start without glow plugs? I have some 40-wt. oil and the tools necessary to take out the glow plugs, so hopefully with some oil in the cylinders, and assuming the glow plugs work later, I can get it to start. Anyone have other suggestions?

v8volvo · #2 09-01-2009, 12:56 PM

If you unplug the wire from the temp sender on the back of the cylinder head (right below the sprocket that drives the rear timing belt for the injection pump), it will trick the glow system into thinking the engine is dead cold, and the glow plugs will come on. It sounds like your compression is low enough that it needs the glow in order to start, even when warm. Common situation with worn-out diesels.

You might eventually want to temporarily install a manual glow system (using a Ford starter relay and a pushbutton), so that the glow plugs can be turned on whenever you want them. That would help you out if this situation arose again. In the meantime, just applying power to the plugs should be enough to get you going again -- just wait a couple hours till its cool enough to light the plugs and start, or use the trick mentioned above. Much easier than trying to put oil in the cylinders, etc, and less risky... you can bend rods and break pistons and rings if you overdo it with the oil.

EvoStevo · #3 09-01-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v8volvo

If you unplug the wire from the temp sender on the back of the cylinder head (right below the sprocket that drives the rear timing belt for the injection pump), it will trick the glow system into thinking the engine is dead cold, and the glow plugs will come on. It sounds like your compression is low enough that it needs the glow in order to start, even when warm. Common situation with worn-out diesels.

You might eventually want to temporarily install a manual glow system (using a Ford starter relay and a pushbutton), so that the glow plugs can be turned on whenever you want them. That would help you out if this situation arose again. In the meantime, just applying power to the plugs should be enough to get you going again -- just wait a couple hours till its cool enough to light the plugs and start, or use the trick mentioned above. Much easier than trying to put oil in the cylinders, etc, and less risky... you can bend rods and break pistons and rings if you overdo it with the oil.

You have a point. I have absolutely no idea how much oil is just enough to get the rings to seal. Knowing me, I probably would overdo it. Thanks for the heads up! I guess I'll just wait for the engine to cool down then.

Jason · #4 09-01-2009, 04:02 PM

You may also think about keeping the throttle down around less than half. Putting all the way to the floor dumps in alot of fuel and can make it hard to start. It can get sort of flooded in a way.

Did you ever try out that BG compression restore stuff?

Jason

EvoStevo · #5 09-01-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

You may also think about keeping the throttle down around less than half. Putting all the way to the floor dumps in alot of fuel and can make it hard to start. It can get sort of flooded in a way.

Did you ever try out that BG compression restore stuff?

Jason

I couldn't find anyone willing to sell BG 109 to me (it's apparently not available to the general public?) so I was going to take my car to an oil change place that carried it and get their "deluxe oil service" when my oil was due.

So I just got back from the car. Still won't start. I let the glow plugs cycle through several times before cranking and still got nothing. I undid the front three glow plugs and put some oil in (about 1/8 the length of a drinking straw, to play it safe). It sounded like it was trying to start, but it gave up after a few seconds.

Not sure what I'm going to do. I was able to round up a couple guys to help put the car straight in the parking space, but I'll likely need to leave it over night (the garage attendants leave in 30 minutes, so I don't think AAA will be able to get here in time). I'll try starting it again with the pedal at less than half throttle.

Jason · #6 09-01-2009, 04:38 PM

If you want to do it yourself, we have the 109 at our shop and will sell it to you... I don't understand what the deal is, unless you had some glow plugs go bad again. Didn't you just replace a few of them?

Jason

EvoStevo · #7 09-01-2009, 06:20 PM

Yes. All of them, actually. Could there be something that's prematurely killing the plugs? I'd test them, but my multimeter is broken. I need to invest in a good quality one.

I'd be interested in purchasing some from BG 109 from you. I'd like to try it on both of my cars, so how much for two cans?

v8volvo · #8 09-02-2009, 12:36 AM

Yep, if your glow plug relay is sticking on, it can burn the plugs out quickly.... does happen sometimes. Another reason to switch to a manually-controlled system where you are the only one deciding if power gets to the plugs or not. It sounds like you are back to square one on this -- you'll have to go through all the steps again and determine if power is getting to the plugs, if the plugs are good, if the timing is right, etc...

However, I wonder if something else is going on. Was the car running fine right before it stalled? Has it had problems starting up when warm in the past? Seems odd it wouldn't start back up after running OK, and then wouldn't start cold either, all of a sudden. Makes me wonder if you had a belt slip again or another problem of that sort. I also find my diesels almost impossible to stall unless I am trying to do it intentionally. If you managed to accidentally stall yours twice, it makes me think it wasn't running quite right either. I'm also still somewhat suspicious of the fact that yours started and ran fine when you got it, then in the space of just a few weeks suddenly seemed to lose compression and begin having starting trouble.

When the diesel shop worked on your car, what did they set the timing to? Should have been somewhere between .85-.95. If it's below that range, it will be tough to start and have reduced torque, esp at low engine speeds.

Jason · #9 09-02-2009, 09:17 AM

The 109 is 29.95 a bottle. Not the cheapest stuff out there but its good. As George said though, it really sounds like there may be other problems going on with the start/no start all of a sudden thing. As I said before, compression doesn't disapear over night. Either way, if you want to order a couple bottles, call the shop at 314-638-7700. You can ask for me if you want, I don't normally answer the phone.

Jason

EvoStevo · #10 09-02-2009, 11:17 AM

My boss brought his multimeter so I'll test the plugs and the relay before I resort to calling the tow truck. I will also try getting oil into the cylinders through the intake manifold (just a little though, so I don't risk hydrolocking it).

The car doesn't seem to care one way or the other if it's hot or cold when it comes to starting. It seems to act the same either way. When it's warm, it might fire up a little quicker but not by much. The car seemed to be running like normal both times I stalled it. So I'm not sure whether or not it stalled because something was wrong with it or I goofed up my footwork on the clutch and throttle. Usually it's pretty hard for me to stall the car. The only times I can recall doing it is when I'm reversing and I accidentally leave the AC on. I'm not sure what the shop set the timing to. I'll call and see if they remember.