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  #21  
Old 01-01-2021, 08:14 PM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngoma View Post
an otherwise "experienced" mechanic is mightily tempted to "make do" with what logically appears to be a "good enough approximation" that seems like it should work, and that has always worked in the past. Sometimes referred to as "Best Practice."

.....

I, for one, am feeling our best timely help is being impeded because of the "Telephone Game" we are dealing with here. Something is getting lost in the translation between your mechanic, thru you, to us, and vice-versa. Might be time for you to request you mechanic enter into this thread directly instead of relying on what you can relay to us
Great point, well put. I wonder if this is a case where a mechanic's long experience actually works against him (and his customer). A novice approaching a high-stakes job involving the timing system would probably want to follow all instructions exactly and therefore in some respects be less prone to mistakes than a seasoned mechanic with lots of past successes using accustomed methods. Maybe that past success would create temptation to not read instructions and rely instead on those methods -- paint marks, impact guns, and so on. Or even if he did read them, maybe he would be tempted to dismiss many critical steps as unnecessary, given - as you said - no evidence from any past experience that any special procedures should be needed.

Thinking about it, it probably explains a huge proportion of the trouble that techs and owners have had over decades with the common experience we still see, including the OP's situation here: a good-running vehicle being brought in for routine care and being returned to the customer running poorly and/or blowing up the engine quickly after. Volvo dealers were notorious for this -- being accustomed of course to Volvo gas engines with no shared theory or procedures. Meanwhile the otherwise identical 5cyl version of the engine, serviced instead by Audi personnel, didn't wind up with any of the finicky reputation, myths about spontaneously exploding camshafts, etc.

Agreed on the telephone effect as well, making what could be straightforward more difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetfiremuck View Post
I ordered the crafter vw timing tool kit when I replaced my timing belt. I cut a slot in the crank tool in the kit with a 41/2" angle grinder to match the slot in the crankto hold the damper pulley. Worked great.
That is a smart idea. Like this one? https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-2-4-2-5-...8AAOSwnHBdHx6C

So you would just use the Audi type crank holder, designed for a single lug crankshaft pulley, and cut a second slot into it to fit the two lug D24 version. Yes?

Cheap way to get a good setup if so.
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  #22  
Old 01-02-2021, 01:14 PM
ngoma ngoma is offline
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Originally Posted by v8volvo View Post
... Volvo dealers were notorious for this -- being accustomed of course to Volvo gas engines with no shared theory or procedures.
Plus a lot of preconceptions and prejudice against the "non-redblock" child under the hood. Exists to this day.
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  #23  
Old 01-03-2021, 10:22 AM
jetfiremuck jetfiremuck is offline
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That’s the tool exactly. The mod to the tool works a treat and can loosen the tightest crank bolts. Bonus extra parts in the kit so not wasted. Tool is beefy too.
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  #24  
Old 01-04-2021, 04:48 PM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
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Originally Posted by jetfiremuck View Post
That’s the tool exactly. The mod to the tool works a treat and can loosen the tightest crank bolts. Bonus extra parts in the kit so not wasted. Tool is beefy too.
Great to know that works. We will add this to the special tools sticky thread.
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  #25  
Old 01-04-2021, 04:59 PM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
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Seth, if you have not yet found the tool needed to check the torque on the crankshaft pulley bolt, jetfiremuck's method above would be a cheap way to own it permanently. (You can also borrow for free as mentioned)

Just remember that all of us here are saying the same thing. You won't see alternate opinions elsewhere either. The only way do this work is with the right equipment. Like with anything requiring any specific tool, common or not: it's a piece of cake with it, impossible without. You wouldn't try to use a crowbar to replace your kitchen sink faucet, it's the wrong tool, wouldn't work, and would probably damage something or hurt somebody in the end. This is the same deal. Maybe your mechanic will be the first person ever in the 45 years these engines have been on the road worldwide to find an alternate method that works -- but it is not likely. MANY have thought this before and been very unhappy to learn otherwise. And why even do the effort of trying to fudge it, when it's far easier to do it right?

Keep in mind too: there are only two possible outcomes from getting hold of the tool and using it to check the torque. Both are positive.

1) You find that the bolt was not tight enough, and by tightening it fully using the right method before it fails and causes damage, you save yourself (and your mechanic) a huge amount of time and cost and inconvenience.

Or -

2) You find miraculously that the bolt was already tight enough. But now that you KNOW for certain, you can use the rig with confidence, rather than always wondering if/when/WHERE it will let go. This is a vehicle you plan to take to remote places that require 6x6 traction, right? How fun will it be to worry that you might brick the engine at any moment when you're out there? If this bolt loosens up and grenades the cylinder head, it's not like a burst hose that you can patch up. No MacGyver field repair is going to get it running to drive out. You will need to somehow get a tow truck to wherever it happened -- and a big one, too.

In either of these cases, what's the possible downside of checking? The 30min it takes and the $35 for the tool? After all the time and $ that's already in it? Why would it be worth the risk, at such a low cost?

Of course you want to trust your mechanic and not hurt your relationship by questioning his assurances. That makes sense. But remember that he thought he had the cam bolt tight enough, too. That one didn't cause damage, this one will, and so will the front cam bolt, for that matter. If you really want to help him out, best is to provide him the equipment and info to succeed.

OK. That's the last word of warning, at least from me. Hopefully this discussion and the many good posts from multiple folks in it is useful, not just now but for whoever may find it later. Needless to say, it's your rig, and your call. Just don't say we didn't try.

Let us know how it goes, and we look forward to seeing some pictures of it someday as well, Pinzgauers are always interesting and each one seems to be unique.
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  #26  
Old 02-06-2021, 08:52 PM
ngoma ngoma is offline
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Any updates? Seems like we've gone thru quite a bit of information, hopefully it has been helpful. Curious to see if it has enabled you to make any progress.
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  #27  
Old 02-12-2021, 03:28 PM
Sethsquatch Sethsquatch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngoma View Post
Any updates? Seems like we've gone thru quite a bit of information, hopefully it has been helpful. Curious to see if it has enabled you to make any progress.
So sorry, for some reason my thread updates didn't alert me to this message. I just posted a new thread to try to track down a specialist in the Denver area. Thanks for the feedback, was very helpful!!
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