It ain't a gusher, but I am still leaking oil.... - Page 2

Jason · #11 11-13-2010, 12:27 PM

They had a sleeve kit for a d24? Thats suprising. I'm guessing where the seal rides has a ridge or some pits from rust? Normally a little wear grove isn't going to make it leak if the seal is fresh, but pits will. How is the area of the crank just behind the seal? I have trimmed the backside of the outer flange of a seal before to get the seal to set in a little farther so it rides on a fresh area. I suppose if you have the kit though not much need to do that. I don't see why you would have to remove the oil pump though.

Jason

lmwatbullrun · #12 11-13-2010, 02:08 PM

In order to install that sleeve, I'd have to pull the oil pump, and in order to do that I'd have to pull the engine and drop the pan. That ain't happening, not this fall.

What I did was carefully measure the distance to the groove, and pick a seal ( I had two different ones with the same part #) that had a shorter distance to the seal lip from the outside face. I checked the dimensions, and if I leave the seal protruding about 0.050, with the different seal dimensions I should be at least 0.100" away from the line.
We'll see if this works.

lmwatbullrun · #13 11-13-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

They had a sleeve kit for a d24? Thats suprising. I'm guessing where the seal rides has a ridge or some pits from rust? Normally a little wear grove isn't going to make it leak if the seal is fresh, but pits will. How is the area of the crank just behind the seal? I have trimmed the backside of the outer flange of a seal before to get the seal to set in a little farther so it rides on a fresh area. I suppose if you have the kit though not much need to do that. I don't see why you would have to remove the oil pump though.

Jason

In order for the sleeve lip to get pushed all the way up the shaft, it has to pass through the aluminum housing that surrounds the front end of the crank. so that simply won't work, especially since I have to pull the rim off after I drive the sleeve on. I tried another idea, see above. We'll see if that works

lmwatbullrun · #14 11-15-2010, 02:02 AM

no joy with going outboard of the line. Still getting a trickle of oil onto the belt. This is getting to be a serious PITA. If I have to pull the engine to replace the seal, I might as well rebuild an engine and drop it in, which I do NOT have time to do.

I may try your idea, Jason, and go inboard of the old line by trimming a LONG seal. what tool do you use to trim it without warping the seal rim all to hellandgone? I was thinking of a sheet metal nibbler; how did you do it, Jason?

lmwatbullrun · #15 11-15-2010, 02:09 AM

Is it possible to burnish the seal bearing area without removing the oil pump?

Is it possible the oil is coming from somewhere else? I saw no evidence of oil leakage from anywhere else, but has anyone run into this problem? That is the oil pump, right there, so could that oil pump be squirting oil out somewhere else?

Jason · #16 11-15-2010, 06:41 AM

I used an air powered cut off wheel and went arount the seal very carefully. It could be comming from the oil pump where it bolts to the bock, the oil passages between the pump and block are sealed by a gasket. It could be the gasket is leaking, but I think you would see that. You could check all the 10mm head bolts that hold the pump to the block. I just looked at my greenbook to refresh my memorie, and all that is there is the shoulder of the crank and the seal. I suppose it could be possible that the oil pump is leaking into that area due to wear and allow oil pressure to get behind the seal forcing oil out. One other thing to look for, is there a drain at the bottom of the housing behind the seal to allow oil to get back into the block? Seems like i remember there being something of that nature built in, though i may be thinking of a different engine. I would look at that closely as well and make sure its not plugged up.

Jason

lmwatbullrun · #17 11-15-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

I used an air powered cut off wheel and went arount the seal very carefully.

OK, I have a Dremel tool with a diamond cutoff wheel that would do the same thing, maybe get fancy and chuck it up in the lathe and trim it with the Dremel while the lathe spins it. How much did you take off? 0.050"? more?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

It could be coming from the oil pump where it bolts to the block, the oil passages between the pump and block are sealed by a gasket. It could be the gasket is leaking, but I think you would see that.

Well, I would not bet on that. The whole front of the block was sticky with oil, and while I did give it a quick wipe, I confess I did not spend a lot of time on that; I've fixated on the seal. There could well have been a leak I missed. If it leaked at the top of the pump, it would run back down the face of the pump to the timing belt drive sprocket and have the same effect. There was a lot of fairly liquid oil on the face of the pump when I took the cover plate off.... Hmmmmm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

You could check all the 10mm head bolts that hold the pump to the block. I just looked at my greenbook to refresh my memorie, and all that is there is the shoulder of the crank and the seal. I suppose it could be possible that the oil pump is leaking into that area due to wear and allow oil pressure to get behind the seal forcing oil out.

Hmmm. I would have thought that the seal was exposed to pump pressure, but the crank journal is well inboard of that in this design. Is this designed just to take the splash?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason

One other thing to look for, is there a drain at the bottom of the housing behind the seal to allow oil to get back into the block? Seems like i remember there being something of that nature built in, though i may be thinking of a different engine. I would look at that closely as well and make sure its not plugged up.
Jason

There is such a drain, and I squirted it with PB blaster and it appeared to drain back to the block, but if I go back in I will take a closer look. When I first opened it up there was a lot of congealed crap and crud in the area behind the seal, which I removed with Qtips and pipe cleaners but after the first time it seemed pretty clean.

Well, making sure that the pump is not leaking seems a fruitful source of inquiry, and the idea about shortening the seal is also a good one. Perhaps I will pursue these this weekend. Thanks for taking the time to think about this and get back to me, sir!

Jason · #18 11-16-2010, 08:41 AM

You would have to be having quite a leek if there is the hole there that I thought. The seal is not supposed to be holding in pressure, just oil in generall from the front main bearing and splashing oil inside the engine. With the drain open, it should be able to drain out faster than it gets in. I would suspect that gasket as having a chunk missing or a crack in it from age. The one that was on my block that I reubuilt was petrafied.
Good luck with it keep us posted.
Jason

lmwatbullrun · #19 11-16-2010, 03:13 PM

the more I think about this the more I think the seal is not the problem.

Question: Is it feasible to get sealant in between the pump and the block without completely removing the pan? HOw much play is there in the pump/pickup tube assembly?

Jason · #20 11-17-2010, 05:28 AM

Thats probably not gonna work. The pickup is supported pretty well, and is also pretty thick and solid. I suppose if you undo all the bolts into the pump you may be albe to pry on it a little and inject some sealant along the gasket... I don't know how sucessful that will be since the gasket is holding in oil pressure, not just oil sitting in the engine or oil splashing like pretty much any other gasket. The oil here is going to really try to push its way out. I suppose its worth a try.

Jason