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  #1  
Old 07-22-2020, 07:41 PM
GWebie23 GWebie23 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2020
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Vehicle: 245 4 speed d24
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Smile New member, new car 83 245 GL with d24 4 speed manual

Iím the new owner of a 83 245 GL d24 4speed manual with overdrive. New to these cars in particular but also have an 83 G10 with a 6.2TD hx40 with a 4L80e. I love this car, second owner and canít get it running, so far new battery, fuel filter change, and added sea foam and atf to fuel in tank. I added a inline Electric fuel pump prior to injection pump to assist in fuel pressure. Cranks and smokes, glow plug relay works 12volts to glow plugs and light functions, just cranks and smokes. The timing marks appear to be on the mark, and sounds good while cranking. Iím guessing my valve shims are out of adjustment because of the slight wear on the cams I see and have yet to do the compression test until testing valve shin clearance. Still looking for the valve shim lock out tool. Also sourcing an engine is not easy as it seems, being in Northern California. Anyways thanks for reading Iíll add some pics and hope to get it running soon any suggestions or help is much appreciated and look forward to meeting you guys soon!
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  #2  
Old 07-22-2020, 08:28 PM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
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Welcome, sharp looking wagon! And a 6.2TD in a van with a modern transmission sounds like an interesting setup too.

Crank but no start with smoke is usually either glow plug issue or timing issue. Does it try to fire at all or just spin on the starter and do nothing?

You say you have 12V to the glow plug bus but do you know if the plugs themselves are good? You can check with ohmmeter or test light, or an inductive ammeter on the glow plug power supply wire. Should be roughly 12 amps per plug if you use that method so you want to see ~70A plus or minus. If it's less then you know you are down a few plugs and can do the calculation to figure out how many are working. These engines really like to have all 6 plugs working, will usually start OK but smoky with 5, will usually start on 4 but with struggle. If only 3 or fewer working plugs, often no start at all or if they do it requires great effort, depends on condition of engine and on altitude and temperature.

Timing marks line up means timing is "close" but it may still not be close enough to run, these are timed with a dial indicator procedure that is easy once you have done it but requires the right tools and attentive execution, getting it close with marks is often not enough. And it can be 180 degrees out with the marks still visually lined up! We have all done that one time or another.

Do you know the history of the car and when/how it last ran? Was it a good running car that got parked while still running well, and then you got it and are reviving it? Or did it run for you at some point before, then quit? Or, did it never start again after somebody attempted a timing belt replacement????

Valve clearance out of spec is a (long shot, theoretical) possibility for affecting starting but probably not as likely as the more common causes above. If it sounds good when cranking, i.e. even rhythm, then that probably means valve clearance is not an issue or at least not enough to matter for getting started. I wouldn't worry about that for now IMO.
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86 745 D24T/ZF 340k lifted 2.5"
83 764 D24T/M46 145k
93 Toyota 4x4 pickup 1.9 TDI swapped
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  #3  
Old 07-24-2020, 08:08 PM
GWebie23 GWebie23 is offline
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Thanks v8volvo!

It is very clean, supposedly the previous owner parked it because of a bad brake line. However I did receive it with paperwork having a new head installed not too long before it was parked. It hasnít ran for 20 years, I do suspect that is could be 180 out or off on timing on the injection pump because the previous owner handed me a set of use glow plugs. So I guess Iíll pull all the glow plugs and ohm them out and see from there but I donít think itís that because when cranking with electric fuel pump and a good 30 seconds which I generally never like to crank that long... the upper radiator hose was getting warm... indicating to me the block was warm enough to fire... so not sure but Iíll check plugs and about to order the dial indicator adapter for the injection pump. Still would like to check valve shims if I can find the tool.
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  #4  
Old 07-24-2020, 08:15 PM
GWebie23 GWebie23 is offline
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Also I know he over heated it in the past to get the head put on, no signs of bad head gasket, also changed oil, and filter and even gave her a shot of ether to see if she would kick and not even a fire with the ether just stumbles like sheís about to kick and then slows down like Iím running out of cranking apps
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  #5  
Old 07-25-2020, 10:17 AM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
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Definitely don't want to use ether ever in these engines. Not even just a whiff of it. ESPECIALLY if the glow plugs are lit!!! I have a collection of shattered glow plugs on my shelf from people doing this on these engines and others like them (Ford IDIs, GMs, etc). Can also crack pistons, bend rods, bend or fracture crankshaft, blow head gasket, etc. It's the fastest and most effective way out there to turn a good engine into scrap metal!!

Same as a 6.2 or 6.5. These engines really, REALLY do not like ether. And there is no situation where ether will ever help. If the engine won't start and run on diesel, then it's not going to run on ether, as you already found out. So you get all the damage from ether and no benefit. These engines are extremely easy starting diesels when they are working right, and they are also extremely simple engines and easy to fix. If it won't start, you'll be able to figure out why without too much trouble.

Just some advice to avoid doing anything you will later regret. You want to keep the ether far away from this engine at all times, no matter how tempting it might be. I will repeat, it can never help, only harm.

Timing 180 degrees out sounds like a possibility, though if that is true then it wouldn't have "run when parked". You say it smokes when cranking to start: does it smoke a lot? If so then you definitely have fuel flowing, but if not, then fuel injector prime is a question you could check by cracking lines open at the injectors.

Also, when you say timing marks are lined up, are you talking only about the mark on the injection pump lining up with the mark on the pump mounting bracket? What about the mark on the edge of the IP drive pulley? There is a notch on the pulley flange that should line up roughly with the IP timing mark with engine at #1 TDC.

If it definitely ran when parked, then timing being off is not too likely, but I would still rough-check it with the above method. That will not tell you if the exact setting is right but will at least tell you if it jumped a tooth.

If it ran when parked but doesn't start now, one more possibility is loss of ring seal from dry or stuck rings. This is very rare but we have seen it on engines now and then after sitting a long time. Solution is to do a compression test and/or add a little lightweight motor oil or ATF to the cylinders with injectors removed, then crank with injectors out to blow excess oil away and prevent hydrolock, then reinstall injectors and attempt starting again with the cylinders wet. If the issue is compression loss at the rings, this usually brings the engine instantly back to life.
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86 745 D24T/ZF 340k lifted 2.5"
83 764 D24T/M46 145k
93 Toyota 4x4 pickup 1.9 TDI swapped
04 Audi Allroad 2.0 TDI swap in progress
02 F250 SD 5.4/4R100
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  #6  
Old 07-25-2020, 10:30 AM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
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If you want to just check the valve clearance, you don't need any special tools at all for that. Just a set of feeler gauges (preferably angled ones) and probably a new valve cover gasket, if the one you remove is the old 4-piece cork style. There is an updated reusable 1-piece rubber type you will want to upgrade to unless it already has one, which it might if the head was replaced at some point.

Adjusting the clearance by replacing the shims does require special tools (tappet depressor and special shim pliers, plus of course a selection of replacement shims in different thicknesses to change the clearance), but just checking the clearance is a 5 minute job with feelers only and will answer any questions about the valves. And you're right to want to look at it, at some point, since this is routine maintenance that is important to do.

But again, if it sounds like it has even compression when cranking, then valve clearance out of spec is a highly unlikely culprit for no-start. I would suggest getting the engine running first, then immediately getting ready to replace the 20+ year old timing belt (!!), THEN during that procedure when the valve cover is off for the belt job anyway, planning to check and if necessary adjust valve clearances.
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86 745 D24T/ZF 340k lifted 2.5"
83 764 D24T/M46 145k
93 Toyota 4x4 pickup 1.9 TDI swapped
04 Audi Allroad 2.0 TDI swap in progress
02 F250 SD 5.4/4R100
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  #7  
Old 07-25-2020, 10:46 AM
ngoma ngoma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWebie23 View Post
So I guess Iíll pull all the glow plugs and ohm them out and see from there...
If you have a non-contact (IR) thermometer you can save yourself from R/R the GPs (the rear ones are difficult access). Cycle the GPs a few times to get them hot, don't need to crank the engine. Hold the IR thermometer close to the GP and compare its temperature to the temp of the head further away. Should show a measurable difference if the GP is working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GWebie23 View Post
Still would like to check valve shims if I can find the tool.
To check valve clearances all you need is a set of feeler gauges. That, and 10mm socket to remove the valve cover. Easy.

For cold engine:

Intake = 0.15 - 0.25mm (0.006 - 0.010 in.)
Exhaust = 0.35 - 0.45mm (0.014 - 0.018 in.)
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  #8  
Old 07-25-2020, 12:06 PM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngoma View Post
If you have a non-contact (IR) thermometer you can save yourself from R/R the GPs (the rear ones are difficult access). Cycle the GPs a few times to get them hot, don't need to crank the engine. Hold the IR thermometer close to the GP and compare its temperature to the temp of the head further away. Should show a measurable difference if the GP is working.
Good idea.
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86 745 D24T/ZF 340k lifted 2.5"
83 764 D24T/M46 145k
93 Toyota 4x4 pickup 1.9 TDI swapped
04 Audi Allroad 2.0 TDI swap in progress
02 F250 SD 5.4/4R100
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  #9  
Old 07-25-2020, 02:45 PM
RedArrow RedArrow is offline
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Also you could plug in the electric coolant heater overnight, in case yours has that.
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  #10  
Old 07-25-2020, 10:17 PM
19misha72 19misha72 is offline
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Добрый день. Очень красивый универсал !!!
Volvo 245 diesel надо реанимировать.https://youtu.be/2zbv3gzgSqY
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