D24T.com  

Go Back   D24T.com > Technical Discussion Area > Diesel Engine and Drivetrain
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-14-2021, 08:30 AM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montana, USA
Vehicle: '86 745, '83 764
Posts: 1,626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ngoma View Post

Also-- We should not categorically rule out the possibility of a defective oil cooler, even a new one. Although the symptoms do appear to be more consistent with HG failure, as stated above.
Good point and true. The oil in coolant could have come from there. Although oil cooler failure would not give a good explanation for the sudden overheating and cooling system overpressurization. Nonetheless, it could explain the other events too it if the cooler had in fact been failed for a while, coated the inside of the rad with oil and degraded hose condition resulting in the hose failure and that had caused the overheat episode.

The fact that the OP said the hose blew *after* the engine overheated suggests this theory would be off the mark, to my thinking at least, but then again, in the heat of the moment (no pun intended ) with many things happening at once plus trying to navigate traffic it can be hard to recall exactly afterwards what happened and how/when/what order. We all have been there. If the real sequence was that the hose blew first, or at least began to leak coolant out, then oil cooler failure could be the cause.

Oil cooler failure is not statistically common -- identical cooler used in millions upon millions of VW/Audi/etc vehicles worldwide from '70s to recent -- so we'd know if they were a trouble spot and probably a majority of those that do get replaced are wishful attempts where a head gasket problem is the real issue -- but infant mortality/DOA with new parts does happen, especially aftermarket. Headgasket failure OTOH is statistically common in engines where provoked by lack of due care paid to the preventive measures esp when combined with extreme operating conditions.

No reason to rule out the possibility though, pending further diagnostics steps, agree for sure. Sethsquatch can you remember when was the last time you had checked coolant level/appearance prior to this breakdown? Is there a possibility oil had been present in the coolant for some number of days/weeks beforehand?
__________________
86 745 D24T/ZF 345k lifted 2.5"
83 764 D24T/M46 155k
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-14-2021, 11:06 AM
ngoma ngoma is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,360
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by v8volvo View Post
Oil cooler failure is not statistically common -- identical cooler used in millions upon millions of VW/Audi/etc vehicles worldwide from '70s to recent -- so we'd know if they were a trouble spot and probably a majority of those that do get replaced are wishful attempts where a head gasket problem is the real issue...
Interesting. I admit my thinking was thrown off by the minorly common practice of "going to remove that D@<!# failure-prone oil cooler before it causes a mess!"

Made me to think oil cooler failure was a thing.

But it appears to be an urban legend based on wishful fantasies (anything but admit to a HG problem).
__________________
1985 744 gle d24t
1985 745 gle d24t
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-15-2021, 08:26 AM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montana, USA
Vehicle: '86 745, '83 764
Posts: 1,626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ngoma View Post
But it appears to be an urban legend based on wishful fantasies (anything but admit to a HG problem).
I think that is correct. Cribbing from RockAuto below is the application list for the 068 117 021 type cooler. Note that the application years range from 1981 all the way to 2006 and include all of the highest volume bread-and-butter models VAG has ever sold, both gas and diesel... Furthermore this list is definitely incomplete (right off the bat I see it is missing 82-83 Vanagon and 95-97 Audi A6 and 04-06 Golf), and even more important, it only covers US market models. The rest of the world saw many models and engines that also used this cooler, probably into more recent years also. We can estimate that the number of vehicles produced using this exact oil cooler P/N is in the hundreds of millions easily. Then if accounting for other engines/models using closely similar design cooler with slight changes for fitment -- size or orientation of hose connections -- perhaps another hundred million plus.

None of these models are known for common oil cooler problems. They can fail and presumably do, sure. But not often. I used to see dozens of TDI cars come through a shop every week, plus other Volvos and VW diesels using this part, many reaching 250k, 300k, 400k plus mile ranges. Never saw a failed cooler -- not one single failure. If they had any kind of tendency to fail, the much more common applications like TDI would have enthusiast owners buzzing with the need to watch for it, and the whole world would be aware that 25+ years worth of incredibly diverse VAG products ranging from ancient beater Rabbits to shiny late model Audis to commercial and military trucks have an oil cooler that needs attention paid. A pandemic of oil cooler failures across a colossal global population. None of that is seen. Hence my skeptical opinion that it makes no sense this extreme low volume US Volvo D24T application would see hardly any failures at all, let a lone a high rate, and my guess that it is simple optimism or denial when people replace that cooler (or seek to eliminate it) after overheating their engine and finding oil in coolant afterwards....

Last of all, the use of one part in so many applications and with zero revisions across 3 decades is a pretty good vote of confidence from the OEM, who doesn't want to pay warranty repairs any more than we don't want to replace them all these years later, and uses failure rate data to make their decision.

All this simply to say to the OP (and whoever reading in the future with oil in coolant!), IMHO best not get your hopes up for an oil cooler failure, although certainly checking for it is always a smart idea in the interest of complete diagnosis. If you want to conclusively test the oil cooler for oil/coolant barrier leakage, you can easily disconnect the hoses and pressure test it in isolation from the rest of the engine. Either from the coolant side using a pressure tester, or by running the engine with coolant hoses disconnected at the cooler and see if it flows pressurized oil out the coolant hose connections. This process rather than dye in the oil would rule the oil cooler out.

AUDI 100 1992-1994
AUDI 4000 1982-1983
AUDI 80 1988-1990
AUDI 90 1988
AUDI A4 1997-2001
AUDI CABRIOLET 1994
VOLKSWAGEN BEETLE 1998-2006
VOLKSWAGEN CABRIO 1995-2002
VOLKSWAGEN CORRADO 1990-1992
VOLKSWAGEN EUROVAN 1993-2003
VOLKSWAGEN GOLF 1998-2003
VOLKSWAGEN JETTA 1981-2005
VOLKSWAGEN PASSAT 1993-1999
VOLKSWAGEN QUANTUM 1982-1985
VOLKSWAGEN RABBIT 1981-1984
VOLKSWAGEN RABBIT PICKUP 1981-1983
VOLKSWAGEN SCIROCCO 1984-1989
VOLVO 740 1985-1986
VOLVO 745 1985
VOLVO 760 1983-1985

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...17021b#fitment
__________________
86 745 D24T/ZF 345k lifted 2.5"
83 764 D24T/M46 155k
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-19-2021, 08:25 AM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montana, USA
Vehicle: '86 745, '83 764
Posts: 1,626
Default

Seth, any update? Success finding the source of oil in the coolant?

We are always curious about solutions on here, so that threads can serve as a future resource for someone who may have a similar issue later. Thus we like to encourage members to circle back once they have an answer or resolution on their question, and share that info with the group to close the discussion out. That is how the give-and-take works where folks offer help and advice, and then the later followup on the ultimate solution from the member who asked the question pays it back and adds to the body of knowledge.

Nobody wants to find a thread in the future that describes their exact problem but then dead-ends with no insight on what the outcome was!
__________________
86 745 D24T/ZF 345k lifted 2.5"
83 764 D24T/M46 155k
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.