D24 Special Tools

[ngoma]

The bare minimum is all, EXCEPT for the IP pulley locking pin!

Special tools for IP Timing
5201 Dogleg wrench for pulley bolts. If there is space (not in 240), can get by with common 17mm offset box end wrench, but won't be able to get torque reading.

5199 Pulley wrench. Need, but can make a reasonable facsimile.

5194 Dial indicator holder/extension. Need, these are currently found on ebay.

Dial indicator. Need


Special tools for TB R/R, camshaft timing
ALL the above, plus:
5187 Crank damper holder (counterhold). Need. Forum members have made before, search threads for details. There are also recent threads about a currently available version from the EU.

5188 Crank pulley center bolt wrench. Need. Forum members have made before, search threads for details.

(See link in post #16 in this thread for illustration of the above two special tools)

5190 Camshaft alignment bracket. Need. Supposedly can make one out of a brass door hinge.

[v8volvo]

Originally Posted by ukvolvo

I keep been told to mark up and go for it by volvo specialists here, but that will not guarantee a correct factory set up to start improving from.

That is bad and dangerous advice, and you are right to not accept it.

It's the same philosophy that has resulted in so many of these engines being destroyed by "Volvo specialists" over the decades , who then blame the failure on the engine rather on themselves for deliberately sabotaging it despite having the proper instructions right in front of them. Sad and irritating to hear people still repeating the old misinformation even now -- at one time in the past threatening the assets and finances and safety of regular folks who owned these cars as their main transportation, and today in reference to an antique car of which very few remain.

Anyway glad to hear that you dismissed those recommendations.

Assembling the full set of factory-version tools is no small task, requiring significant time and money, unless you are lucky enough to encounter a Volvo dealer or independent shop wishing to offload its full set, or find them piece by piece (or even every now and then all together) on ebay. You can try those methods, but they're often not out there at the exact moment you need them.

However, as ngoma alluded, there are good substitutes for most or all of the factory tools at very low cost, if you are willing to use a little creativity and work smart. Thanks to the fact that these are really Audi engines not Volvo engines, the Volvo-specified tools can often be subbed with much more common Audi/VW equivalents, IF you know what you're looking for and don't get tripped up by loosely worded advertisements for tools that might not work. (Main key there is understanding that the 4-cylinder versions of the engines use their own different equipment/procedures and are not compatible. The stuff you need will be called out for the FIVE CYLINDER 2.0L, 2.4L, 2.5L Audi/VW diesel and TDI engines, not the fours.)

But stuff that works is out there cheap, and better yet, many of those substitutes should be even more easily found on your side of the pond where the VW/Audi relatives of the engines are extremely common.

Here are some of the known simple recipes:

9995187 crankshaft counterhold: you can use a commonly found version for a 2.5L TDI 5cylinder as found in Audi cars and VW Transporter trucks. It requires a very slight modification that you can accomplish with an angle grinder in about five minutes, to create a second open section opposite the existing one (D24T crank pulley has two locking lugs to engage with the tool where as the 2.5TDI has only one). See discussion posts and ebay links on page 3 of this thread from member jetfiremuck who has done this. The tool will cost you just a few pounds. https://d24t.com/showthread.php?t=2116&page=3

9995188 wrench extension: you can make one by welding a 27mm socket onto the end of a piece of flat steel, and on the other end adding something to attach a torque wrench to (such as a large nut to accept another socket). The length of the piece of flat steel and the spacing from the wrench attachment to the welded socket would be critical, so if you plan to make one, tell us and someone will measure the correct distance for you. You could also get away without this tool IF YOU HAVE A TORQUE WRENCH THAT READS UP TO 350 FT-LB to use directly on the front crankshaft bolt. If not, you need to obtain or make the tool. There is probably also a cheap Audi version of this out there as well, more research required but probably not hard to find if you can find some service literature for a 2.5TDI Audi/VW engine which will undoubtedly call out a special tool number.

Dial indicator and holder and rod (9995194), and locking plate for back of camshaft (9995190): as ngoma noted, these are easily substituted. Both common on ebay for very cheap. These are the only two tools where the ubiquitous 4 cylinder versions work just fine, though you will need to remove the vac pump for space using the 4cyl version of the dial indicator setup (easy to do). Slight modification of the 4cyl cam locking plate sometimes required for clearance to the two rear valve cover studs, 15 seconds with a bench grinder.

Also the 5190 plate appears to be included in that 23GBP ebay tool set linked in the other thread mentioned earlier. Here it is again: https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-2-4-2-5-...8AAOSwnHBdHx6C

You could buy that tool set, and then also another commonly seen cheap set intended for the 4cyl engines, and between the two of them you would have 90% of what you need (along with a bunch of stuff that you don't need but oh well).

D24 greenbooks are online. Will look for links, we should have one stickied anyway. Try looking for mirrors of the old k-jet.org as a place to start.

The biggest advice of all: don't let lack of the tools either cause you to become discouraged and decide not do the timing belt job, OR cause you to do it but attempt to cut corners or work without the right equipment/info. Everything you need is out there, cheap, and easy to get if you know where and how to look.

[ngoma]

Originally Posted by v8volvo

That is bad and dangerous advice, and you are right to not accept it.

So did you read the "mark up and go for it" as marking the positions of the rotating parts with whiteout or something? Agreed, not likely to produce satisfactory results.

Originally Posted by v8volvo

You could also get away without this tool IF YOU HAVE A TORQUE WRENCH THAT READS UP TO 350 FT-LB to use directly on the front crankshaft bolt.

Caveat here, knowing that torque wrench readings are not accurate at the ends of the scale-- the 350 ft-lb should be near the middle of the scale. 100 - 500 or 100 - 700 ft-lb torque wrenches do exist, 4 - 5 feet long, easily costing $400 - 600 or more. Maybe make friends with somebody who works at the bus barn? Wonder if a Torque Multiplier could work?

[v8volvo]

Originally Posted by ngoma

So did you read the "mark up and go for it" as marking the positions of the rotating parts with whiteout or something? Agreed, not likely to produce satisfactory results.

Yeah.

Sometimes referred to as the "M&P" method -- meaning "mark and pray"

Pray to which God? Who knows, as the prayers are always ignored.

[Goteborg Vapenfabrik]

On the 200 series D24 diesels there is not sufficient space between the radiator cross member and the pulley to fit a torque wrench on the 27 mm crankshaft screw. The special tool is required. On the 700 series D24T engines there may be enough space for a torque wrench if the radiator is removed. 900 series D24T intercooled should be very close to 700 in spacing.

[ukvolvo]

Originally Posted by v8volvo

That is bad and dangerous advice, and you are right to not accept it.

It's the same philosophy that has resulted in so many of these engines being destroyed by "Volvo specialists" over the decades , who then blame the failure on the engine rather on themselves for deliberately sabotaging it despite having the proper instructions right in front of them. Sad and irritating to hear people still repeating the old misinformation even now -- at one time in the past threatening the assets and finances and safety of regular folks who owned these cars as their main transportation, and today in reference to an antique car of which very few remain.

Anyway glad to hear that you dismissed those recommendations.

Assembling the full set of factory-version tools is no small task, requiring significant time and money, unless you are lucky enough to encounter a Volvo dealer or independent shop wishing to offload its full set, or find them piece by piece (or even every now and then all together) on ebay. You can try those methods, but they're often not out there at the exact moment you need them.

However, as ngoma alluded, there are good substitutes for most or all of the factory tools at very low cost, if you are willing to use a little creativity and work smart. Thanks to the fact that these are really Audi engines not Volvo engines, the Volvo-specified tools can often be subbed with much more common Audi/VW equivalents, IF you know what you're looking for and don't get tripped up by loosely worded advertisements for tools that might not work. (Main key there is understanding that the 4-cylinder versions of the engines use their own different equipment/procedures and are not compatible. The stuff you need will be called out for the FIVE CYLINDER 2.0L, 2.4L, 2.5L Audi/VW diesel and TDI engines, not the fours.)

But stuff that works is out there cheap, and better yet, many of those substitutes should be even more easily found on your side of the pond where the VW/Audi relatives of the engines are extremely common.

Here are some of the known simple recipes:

9995187 crankshaft counterhold: you can use a commonly found version for a 2.5L TDI 5cylinder as found in Audi cars and VW Transporter trucks. It requires a very slight modification that you can accomplish with an angle grinder in about five minutes, to create a second open section opposite the existing one (D24T crank pulley has two locking lugs to engage with the tool where as the 2.5TDI has only one). See discussion posts and ebay links on page 3 of this thread from member jetfiremuck who has done this. The tool will cost you just a few pounds. https://d24t.com/showthread.php?t=2116&page=3

9995188 wrench extension: you can make one by welding a 27mm socket onto the end of a piece of flat steel, and on the other end adding something to attach a torque wrench to (such as a large nut to accept another socket). The length of the piece of flat steel and the spacing from the wrench attachment to the welded socket would be critical, so if you plan to make one, tell us and someone will measure the correct distance for you. You could also get away without this tool IF YOU HAVE A TORQUE WRENCH THAT READS UP TO 350 FT-LB to use directly on the front crankshaft bolt. If not, you need to obtain or make the tool. There is probably also a cheap Audi version of this out there as well, more research required but probably not hard to find if you can find some service literature for a 2.5TDI Audi/VW engine which will undoubtedly call out a special tool number.

Dial indicator and holder and rod (9995194), and locking plate for back of camshaft (9995190): as ngoma noted, these are easily substituted. Both common on ebay for very cheap. These are the only two tools where the ubiquitous 4 cylinder versions work just fine, though you will need to remove the vac pump for space using the 4cyl version of the dial indicator setup (easy to do). Slight modification of the 4cyl cam locking plate sometimes required for clearance to the two rear valve cover studs, 15 seconds with a bench grinder.

Also the 5190 plate appears to be included in that 23GBP ebay tool set linked in the other thread mentioned earlier. Here it is again: https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-2-4-2-5-...8AAOSwnHBdHx6C

You could buy that tool set, and then also another commonly seen cheap set intended for the 4cyl engines, and between the two of them you would have 90% of what you need (along with a bunch of stuff that you don't need but oh well).

D24 greenbooks are online. Will look for links, we should have one stickied anyway. Try looking for mirrors of the old k-jet.org as a place to start.

The biggest advice of all: don't let lack of the tools either cause you to become discouraged and decide not do the timing belt job, OR cause you to do it but attempt to cut corners or work without the right equipment/info. Everything you need is out there, cheap, and easy to get if you know where and how to look.

This is exactly the info i needed ThankYou. I am crossing my fingers for some luck as i was talking to a old retired diesel specialist yesterday and he claims he still has all the tools FOR SALE

Fingers crossed he comes back this weekend and im on the right path

Mick

[v8volvo]

Originally Posted by ukvolvo

This is exactly the info i needed ThankYou. I am crossing my fingers for some luck as i was talking to a old retired diesel specialist yesterday and he claims he still has all the tools FOR SALE

Fingers crossed he comes back this weekend and im on the right path

Mick

Good news. Just be sure the stuff you get is relevant to the 5 and 6 cylinder diesel (as used in Audi cars, VW LT heavy trucks, and Volvo cars, but NOT in small VW cars such as Golf, Passat, Jetta). Again you want to watch out for people who may be confused and think the 4 cylinder stuff is what you are looking for, since although the techniques for those engines are similar in principle they use mostly different equipment for the timing jobs. As noted above, there are a couple of things in the 4-cylinder "kit" that will be useful (cam locking bar and the IP dial indicator/holder/rod), but the rest of the tools for the 4cyl would not be useful to you on a Volvo, and more importantly it would lack some things you do need.

However, if he really does have the correct 6cyl stuff then you've lucked out as this is the best/easiest way to get hands on the tools in one shot.

Originally Posted by v8volvo

the prayers are always ignored.

For the sake of accurate info in this sticky thread, I realized I should have clarified this statement a little more. It's not necessarily true that the so-called mark-and-pray method could "never" work. There is always the theoretical chance that the cam and IP timing happens to land in the correct range by pure lucky accident (or successful prayers??).

Also, for someone who knows EXACTLY what/how/why they are doing, AND who is using several of the special tools/techniques to thoroughly check their work before and after, it is possible to do certain repair procedures without stepping through the entire full timing system disassembly/re-timing process. Examples of this are replacement of the front timing belt idler pulley and of the water pump in cases where the timing belt is not yet due to be replaced and is being retained. Many of us here have done those procedures carefully but successfully with the help of paint marks and the like, and managed to save a little bit of time on the job in the end.

**HOWEVER, to achieve success with those methods, one has to also check IP-to-crank timing before disassembly using the dial indicator, and then re-check it after reassembly, confirming it is exactly the same. AND one must be fully prepared and equipped to continue through the full re-timing process IF the timing ends up at all different. Therefore it doesn't save you from still needing to have all the tools on hand and needing to be ready and able to use them, and it doesn't make the work any simpler. To the contrary you need *more* experience and knowledge of the standard procedure to be able to use alternative procedures without jeopardizing the engine. You do it to speed up your work a little bit while reaching the same confirmed result, NOT because you don't have the equipment/technique and are seeking to cut corners that could compromise the result.

Nonetheless, if you do it right, it's a viable practice. But the key is realizing that to safely go off-script with timing work is HARDER and more demanding of skill and nuance, not less. The issue is that most of the time in the real world, the folks trying to cut corners are the same folks who have little or no experience / no interest in learning, and therefore don't actually understand the standard methods, nor the underlying reasons for those methods, nor the risks they are taking in deviating from those methods, incorrectly believing it will make the job easier. Lack of understanding + "alternative techniques" = where we see big problems occur, over and over again.

The folks recommending or practicing the "just mark it up and go" attitude are the ones that fall in this last category and are the most serious troublemakers. (and who often create plenty of trouble for themselves too, when they bugger up the job and create problems they cannot solve despite a customer's reasonable expectations that they do so!)

For someone going through the timing job for the first time, it is NEVER a good idea to attempt anything besides the full standard method, using the full set of tools detailed in this thread or appropriate substitutes for those tools.

[ukvolvo]

I purchased a online manual and ended up with vida it seems. The section on d24s sadly mentions tensioning the belt via the water pump. That means its for a early engine doesn't it? Sadly no matter what year i select i only get the guide with this set up.
.

It is lovely and detailed though so i can share a copy anytime someone wants it

Glad i have a later engine as the early seems even more work


Mick

[ngoma]

Could try here
https://ozvolvo.org/archive/

and here
http://www.volvotips.com/

A bit tedious, not very well organized. If you got vadis to work, you already have demonstrated superior abilities.

You are correct, your setup should have the separate tensioner pulley-- a more elegant evolutionary development.

[ukvolvo]

Originally Posted by ngoma

Could try here
https://ozvolvo.org/archive/

and here
http://www.volvotips.com/

A bit tedious, not very well organized. If you got vadis to work, you already have demonstrated superior abilities.

You are correct, your setup should have the separate tensioner pulley-- a more elegant evolutionary development.

Unless i am been useless there is not a drop of info left on d24 timing on those sites.

Oz volvo only had timing guiides for petrols and volvo tips goes round and round in circles when you select the d24 timing info.It just loops back to a 240 manual sadly. Must be a missing file.



What would be the best way to post the timing belt for earlier engines up? I may aswell share it as i have the full vida guide. Its where some of the black and white pics on here ce from it seems

Mick