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-   -   Engine not starting after sitting over night. (http://d24t.com/showthread.php?t=2173)

DylanW 07-05-2021 06:33 PM

Engine not starting after sitting over night.
 
So I recently bought my diesel Volvo 240 and unfortunately I wreaked it the day I bought it. I had the car towed back to my house and started pulling the wreaked stuff off and had to take radiator fan off cause it was contacting the radiator. I got in the car, started it and moved it into my garage. So after pulling the whole front end off I tried to start it and nothing it would only crank. I thought the problem might be the shut off solenoid so I replaced it and attempted to bleed the injector lines and still nothing. I also just replaced 5 out of the 6 glow plugs and still nothing. It sounds like it gets close to starting but never ends up doing so. I am new to diesel engines and need some help with the basic and ideas of what could be wrong. Thanks

DylanW 07-08-2021 01:22 PM

Update
 
I can get the car started by someone spraying diesel into the intake and cranking it over for around 45 seconds. It will stay idling but smokes white smoke and when driving it around it seems to tick a lot louder than before. Could this be an off time injection pump or something worse like a bad head. Thanks

v8volvo 07-09-2021 09:14 AM

Recommendation #1 -- DON'T continue attempting to start the engine or drive the car.

Something is wrong with the engine and you could do more damage by continuing to attempt to operate it.

The right move is to STOP attempting to start it, and instead figure out what the problem is, using an organized process of diagnostic steps. Once the problem is found and fixed, the engine will be ready to run again, assuming no lasting harm has been done (cross your fingers).

Now -- on ideas for what the issue could be. I think your guess of incorrect injection pump (or cam) timing is the most likely answer. Sudden onset of difficult starting, excess smoke, and poor performance/noise is classic textbook symptoms of a slipped/stripped timing belt or timing gear.

Your first move should be to look for damage to any of the timing belt components from the accident. Did anything involved with the front timing belt cover, water pump, etc get hit or moved by the damage?

Second: remove the front timing belt cover and inspect the front timing belt. Check it for damage, stripped teeth, loss of tension. Check the water pump pulley for radial play. Check the crankshaft accessory drive belt pulley for rotational slop. Put a wrench on the big bolt with the 27mm head on the front of the crankshaft and attempt to turn it backwards, to see if it's loose. If it is still tight, rotate the engine either direction for a few full turns so that you can inspect the entire front timing belt, and make sure the engine turns as it should.

THEN, repeat these steps for the rear timing belt, checking for looseness, stripped teeth, damage.

THEN, assuming you haven't found an obvious issue already by this point, do a basic visual check of camshaft and injection pump timing. You want to find the notch on the outer flange of the injection pump drive gear (use your finger to feel for it if you can't see it visually at first), then rotate the engine by hand until that notch starts to approach the notches on the injection pump bracket and case. As they start to get close, begin looking in through the opening at the bellhousing to watch for the TDC mark on the flywheel. Turn the crank slowly until you see the flywheel TDC mark (it's a "0" I believe?) lines up with the arrow in the bellhousing. Then, look again at the IP gear and see if it's lined up with the notch in the bracket. For more details on this process and photos/diagrams of the areas you need to look, try searching and reading threads here on the forum about timing belt replacement, or you might want to buy a copy of the Volvo D24 "greenbook" factory service manual (usually about $20 on ebay and a very helpful resource to have).

I bet it will not be lined up and that will be your issue. If that is the case, then your next step after this will be to figure out which belt slipped: the front or the rear. Either it's just the IP that's out of time, or it's both the cam and the IP (which is driven off the cam). Cross your fingers it's just the IP, as loss of cam timing usually result in engine damage -- could have been the loud tapping you heard after starting the engine by shooting fuel into it.

Once you get to this point, let us know what you have seen, and we'll advise on the next steps to figure it out. Or, in the event that you confirm the timing is OK, we can move on to different possibilities, although based on your symptoms that is highly unlikely.

Good luck and welcome to the forum -- sorry to see things start off with problems but hopefully we can help you get it figured out and back on the road. :)

DylanW 07-11-2021 06:02 PM

Thanks again for replying. I took the front cover off and checked the belt it seems to be in good shape. The tension seemed to not be too tight or to loose. The rear belt seems to be the same story. As for the IP timing when it was at TDC the notch on the drive pulley looked to be maybe 1 or half a tooth off. Before reading the previous post I replaced the clear fuel hose that goes from the fuel filter to the IP and attempted to start it and it started after only cranking for a few seconds with no fuel being spayed into the intake.

v8volvo 07-12-2021 06:47 AM

That's good news if the belts are in good shape and appear to be close to in time.

Look closer on the timing check. If it is 1 full tooth off, that might mean the front or rear belt jumped. If it is HALF a tooth off it might mean the front crankshaft gear is slipping and about to shear due to an incorrectly installed front bolt which, if true, means your engine is very close to self destructing!

Go through the list of checks I posted above. Check that front crankshaft bolt. Look more closely at timing. Timing is critical on these engines. Either it's right, or it's wrong. There's no such thing as "close enough". Needless to say, if it comes completely out of time due to a belt or gear problem, then you're going to be sadly saying goodbye to the entire engine.

It sounds like your issue might have been air leaking into the injection pump from a bad fuel line if replacing that hose helped it. Does it now start and run just as well as it used to before it had the problems? Or is it still not quite right? You may be dealing with multiple things at once that need to be addressed. Common in a 40 year old car. ;)

DylanW 07-12-2021 10:55 AM

1 Attachment(s)
It looks to be 1 tooth off. Also is it normal for a lot of fumes to be coming out of the valve cover vent while its running?

http://www.simpleimageresizer.com/_u...51_620x280.jpg

ngoma 07-12-2021 12:48 PM

Great photo that clearly shows the base static injector pump timing off by nearly one tooth. As v8volvo stated previously, you need to find out where that slippage occurred. Next thing I would want to do is to (while you have the engine at TDC) is to verify the camshaft timing. Do you know how? Important because with a tight interference engine, piston/valve collision, etc. is a real possibility you want to avoid.

If the camshaft timing is good, you might get away with simply (;)) retiming the IP.

Excessive blowby out of the oil filler cap hole may indicate bad piston rings or worse. Problem is, it's hard to quantify "excessive" remotely.

DylanW 07-12-2021 02:32 PM

I do not know how to check the camshaft timing but upon removing the IP belt cover it seemed to be looser then I thought before so I think It most likely jumped a tooth on this belt rather then the camshaft timing belt. So I am trying to retime it right now

ngoma 07-12-2021 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DylanW (Post 14968)
I do not know how to check the camshaft timing but...

Somehow I read that as meaning you will not be doing that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DylanW (Post 14968)
...upon removing the IP belt cover it seemed to be looser then I thought before so I think It most likely jumped a tooth on this belt rather then the camshaft timing belt.

How much looser is it than before? How far can you twist it at midpoint? 45%? 90%? 180%? More?
Not sure about your logic on this. :confused: Here's why: To "jump a tooth," doesn't the belt have to jump over about half the teeth on the sprocket at once? (It is always wrapped around half the sprocket.) That would be a very loose belt. Unless its missing a bunch of teeth in a long section of it. And more importantly, according to your photo, if the belt jumped the teeth on the sprocket, the IP sprocket mark would be on the other side of the IP and bracket marks, because of the engine rotation direction.

What do you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DylanW (Post 14968)
...So I am trying to retime it right now

Guess that means my next question is, do you know how to do that? (Time the IP, that is.)

DylanW 07-15-2021 06:13 PM

I believe the cam timing is correct cause when I line up the zero mark on the flywheel the mark on the cam sprocket lines up with it's timing mark. I also tried to retime the IP but afterwards the engine wouldn't even idle just start up and die. So I timed it back to what looks to be a tooth off but it runs much better and is able to idle.
I think that the whole problem was air in the clear fuel line that goes between the fuel filter and the pump and I only noticed it after replacing the hose.
Should I check the IP timing using a dial feeler gauge or leave it as is cause it seems to drive like before but even before at probably 3/4 throttle it's shoots out black smoke. Thanks


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