Rescuing my Volvo after 3 years parked
 

Hello everyone,

Well the time has come to move my Volvo from a lot near my old house to my new house. It has been parked outside for nearly 3 years, It "ran when parked", but hasn't been started since. I'm making a list of things that need to be checked prior to starting, moving, and finally driving.

Naturally the list is on a different computer. I'll post it to this thread for the group to review and comment.

The eventual plan will be to remove the engine, configure it to start and run outside of the car, and start fixing the many oil leaks and the terrible sludgy mess. It will be a fun project as I've never done something like that before. The new house has a garage and I can't wait to use it!

Thanks, Jim

More important than "ran when parked" is "started well when parked," meaning: Was it always easy to start, at the time it was parked?

If so, you will likely have an easy time of it, as nothing much will have changed over the 3 years. Diesel fuel does not go bad as quickly or easily as gasoline. Of course, rodents could have chewed thru the wires.

In my experience, the hardest one I had to start, after an unknown number of years, required a quarter teaspoon of motor oil poured into each cylinder. Then it roared to life immediately. For some reason the rings were not sealing enough to build sufficient compression.

You will need a good strong battery, good jumper cables, battery charger.

The most unpleasant part for me is cleaning all the glass (inside & out) and the mildew in the interior before even wanting to drive it any distance. Don't ruin your windshield with shaggy windshield wipers.

+1 on the above. Seen these cars sit for years then start back up on a flick of the key. A case that doesn't want to start after long sitting can occur but is the exception rather than the rule. Assuming no loss of fuel prime from old injection pump seals or injector return hoses, and no electrical damage from vermin as mentioned earlier, it will probably start up as easily as the last time you drove it.

You might want to try to get the engine oil circulating before letting it start the first time. You can remove the glow plug and injection pump power fuse (fuse #13 in the interior fusebox ahead of the shift lever on 1985 and up cars, might be different on earlier ones) to disable the engine from starting, and with the fuse removed, crank the engine over on the starter for a few stretches of 30-40 seconds to get the oil pump primed and build some pressure throughout the engine before letting it run on its own. The cam bearings and turbo bearing in particular will have a hard time with a dry start after so much time sitting. Then when you put the fuse back in it should fire right up assuming everything else is working.

You might want to plan on changing the engine oil after it gets warmed up for the first time too, the old oil will have absorbed significant water from condensation over the last 3 years of seasonal weather changes and oxidation occurs over time also.

The timing belt(s) will be an important question after sitting for years. The rubber deteriorates and the belts aren't really worth trusting more than 7-8 years or so. Unless the belts were changed fairly recently before the car was parked, they may be due or overdue now. Might want to pop the cover off and inspect at least the front timing belt for obvious cracks or brittleness moving the belt by hand before cranking the engine. If it looks and feels pretty good it will probably be safe enough to start it and move it a short distance, but new timing belts would probably want to be high on your list of items to refresh if you do more work on it later. There have been quite a few members here who bought these cars after they sat a long time and then had the belt snap and trash the engine shortly after they put the car on the road.

And last thing, the area that in my experience seems to suffer the most from sitting dormant is the hydraulics of the brake system. Full fluid flush would probably be a good idea, and even with that done, you might end up with a few sticky calipers, might have to replace a few. Good to keep an eye out for this and hopefully find any issues before they strand the car or wear down a pad and chew up an otherwise OK rotor.

Glad you're getting it going again, good luck and let us know how it goes. :)

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. The car did start easy and run well prior to parking it. I had a work trip overseas that had me park the car. Then when returning life caught back up and I lost immediate interest in the Volvo.

Now that I have moved from a townhouse to a single family home with some acreage it makes we want the Volvo back! Here is the list I made while an a long work conference call. :D

That's a good idea! My thought was to unplug the fuel cut-off solenoid to keep fuel from the engine. My new house is about 25 miles from where the car is now. My assumption that it could make the trip.

The front timing belt is an unknown. When I bought the car in 2007 it had a new belt according to the service paperwork. The car came with a large folder of receipts. Now here we are ~12 years later. I'll take a look at the belt and report back my findings.

Great Idea!

Thanks!

Take the battery home a few days beforehand and charge it overnight.

A continuous overnight charging session won't damage a batter in that state?

4-8 amp charger shouldn't be a problem. Of course it will depend on the condition of the battery whether it will come up with a satisfactory charge and load capacity. If the battery appears to be charging normally I wouldn't feel the need to have to source a new one.

Thinking about this further, I would bring it for charging sooner than just the night before, to better monitor the charging results and attempt to try it out starting a vehicle ahead of time.

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the additional thoughts and comments on the battery. I appreciate any advice you offer! I have yet to get to the car. I have been busy with my tractor and getting it ready for winter. It's a diesel too! :D

If I can get the logistics nailed down I may be able to get the battery tomorrow. I have a dumb HF 6/12v charger and two Battery Tender charger/maintainers. I reckon I will use one of the latter and see if the battery can come back to life.

Take your tractor battery with you?

Hello everyone,

I stopped by the car today and I was unable to open the hood! I can unlock it from inside the car, open the spring-hinged latch from the front grill area, but when I pull up only the left side will start to open. The right side will not budge. I tried working it up and down, left to right, etc., but no luck.

When you're standing in a field trying to open a car hood you start to remember that when you parked it the hood was a little tricky to open. IIRC once the hood was "popped" while opening the hood you had to move the hood up and down while opening it. Then once it was past a point the hood would open normally.

I could never figure out why it did this ... but I am now starting to think this is likely the hood problem I have now, but manifested into a new and more irritating problem! Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Stuck Hood Release and Cable Adjustment

Bring a friend, could be a two-person job.

There are a couple different reasons this can happen that I have seen.

The hood latches on each side mount into the sheetmetal on slotted holes so that the position of the latches can be adjusted. If a latch is in the wrong position it can be hard for it to release (or sometimes also hard to latch). I have had good luck adjusting them by loosening the three bolts, partially closing the hood to let the striker pins move the latch to wherever it should be, then carefully re-tightening the bolts in that position to relocate the latch there.

The other way it can happen is if the hood release cable slips at its midpoint attachment to the left side latch. The way it works is that there is one long cable that runs all the way from the interior release lever, hooks up to the left side latch, then continues on to the right side latch. However, if this happens usually the result is that the right side will release but the left side won't. Since you have the opposite situation I would guess it's just the right side latch being misadjusted and probably now also in need of lubrication after sitting for a few years, which is likely the reason it's more of a problem now than when you last dealt with it.

You may be able to get it to release by pulling a little further on the release cable. The release lever will only pull so far, to about 90 degrees. It will break the lever if you try to pull the cable further using the lever, but you can get a pair of vise grips on the cable behind the lever and get another few mm out of it like that. That will usually pop a tight latch free. You might need to have someone pulling up on the right edge of the hood at the same time if it's more sticky due to lack of lubrication or corrosion.

Good luck, as you can probably tell I have had to fight a few of these before and they will eventually open up with careful persuasion and a helper. If you really get desperate or in a big hurry without a second set of hands available you can bust apart the plastic front grille and get access to both latches and the midsection of the cable that way, but it's nice if you can do it without destroying anything. ;) Used replacement grilles are not hard to come by if you have to break thru it though.

Edit: some better tips than mine in the Brickboard link posted above that must have landed while I was writing this, sounds like maybe the first thing to try would be tightening up the threaded fine adjustment of the cable free play that's behind the lever, I forgot about that.

Ugh so annoying!
 

I am always afraid of that scenario at the wrong place or time...and honestly, there is no good time for that to happen.

I never took apart the mechanism on mine but maybe I should because my hood doesnt open perfectly either. I learned my little trick how to get it open and now it opens every time (knock on wood...).

I'll try to summarize what I have, it may help you to successfully keep opening yours until you adjust it later.

When I pull the arm (inside the car) that opens the hood, very often (and about fifty percent of the time) only one side of the hood pops up. When that happens, only one side opens up and when I go to the front to lift the hood up, I cant open the hood.
In these cases I used to go back in the car to pull it again then go out again to open the hood but it still would not open.
Sometimes yes it did but most of the time it did not.

The only thing that seems to work 99.9% of the time is that when I know I have to open the hood, I go in the car and grab the arm and pull it all the way up, in one, constant movement. Im not hard on it but not gentle either, it is rather a quick 1-motion short pull, all the way up.
In my case,
The sound of a good pull is different from the sound you would hear if the arm was pulled up by a person who doesnt know this exact wagon car having this problem. So, I always immediately know right after the pull whether or not the pull was successful and the hood is gonna open *both sides* or not.

Important!
In my case, if I end up having only 1 side open by a too gentle pull of the arm, then I positively must close down both sides of the hood, done by hand, manually, by finding the edge on the hood where the "raised edge" of the hood is, right before the drop above the headlights, and both sides right above the ends of my grille on top of the hood. These pounts mist be pushed down pretty strong like you were cracking a walnut by your fist or you were to test-crush a coconut shell lol.
In fact, when this happens, I do the right side then left then right again, to make sure it is seated and down. It comes with a click too.

So THEN, after pushing down the hood at these spots completely, I can go ahead and apply that quick strong pull and I do it all the way up until the highest it can go.
BTW...doing this doesnt require much force in my case..it simply just has to be not sloppy, not too short and not too gentle.

If your arm requires a large amount if force to pull, I would try figuring out other issues first before forcing it up too much or too hard.

Well I hope it helps and that you get it to start soon. Link us to the video. I'd love to see and hear!

PS. Adjusting the rubber mounts in at both front corners helped some, too.

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the replies and ideas, I really appreciate them! With the holidays and everything else I have not had an opportunity to get back to the car. I hope to get sometime this weekend.

I will certainly try the ideas presented and hopefully one of them will get that hood open. I am eager to see the engine compartment again, it has been a while!

Hi again.

Wow, it's been another 3 years! The forum tells me I last logged in today, 03-31-2020. The car is in the same situation as it was before. But this time I have 2 plastic bins full of tools and fluids, a FSM, and (possibly) a helper. The plan is the same as before, get the hood open, take an inventory, check fluids, bar the engine over, replace the battery, etc.

What can I say, life has been very hectic! Good but hectic. So before the Mid Atlantic summer humidity comes over us I'd like to get the 740 home. I'll be installing a used gantry crane in my garage this summer and I'd still like to pull the engine and fix all the things that were annoying me when I was driving it.

I'll report back how tomorrow goes. I'll likely be back there the next week too.

If you need a new battery, I have had recent good results from Home Depot, of all places. They had fresh HL-8 (now they call it H8?) size batteries, great price, Exide brand I think?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Exide-SP...5-49/308488577

Bring your voltmeter, check for full charge, also check the date code stamped on the side to make sure it is not stale.

Good to see you again!

This time we'll try to hold you to it. :)

Sounds like a good plan and look forward to hearing how it goes getting it back on the road. Keep us posted with photos and updates. That's a good way (for me at least) to keep project momentum going. :cool:

As noted in the discussion a few years ago -- but even more critical now that additional time has passed -- the viability of the timing belts (front belt most importantly) would be a serious question due to age. If it were me, with a front cam belt that is at best 16 years old and maybe older based on what you wrote before, I wouldn't even engage the starter until after changing that belt. Spinning the engine over by hand with a wrench would not be risky but you would hate to do anything else and have that belt break and trash the engine. Lots of stories on here of folks resurrecting old cars that got running very nicely but then bit the dust mere days later due to an ancient timing belt failing. The belts are really only trustworthy up to about 7-8 years, maybe 10 years at the most. Visual inspection doesn't tell you much.

I suffered tragic engine damage in my 745 TD a few winters ago due to risking it with a belt I knew was questionable due to age, ruined the camshaft and cylinder head on an otherwise great-running healthy motor. Had to overhaul the entire top end, what a waste of time and good parts. I'm still mad at myself about it! In my case the culprit was a belt with low miles but a lot of years on it, including time spent sitting. Not unlike your case. The belt "looked" fine, right up until it snapped with no warning..... So again, beware.

Rescue day #1; 04-05-2023 (It's good to be back!)
 

Sorry for the delayed response. I have had a busy week so far. I did get back to the Volvo on Wednesday and I did make some progress! First discovery was what I left in the trunk:

http://www.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_0968a.JPG

As you would expect the poor car is covered in years worth of twigs, pollen, leaves, and general natural detritus. The tires are partially sunk into the ground. The tree that was once "near" the car is now trying to envelop it. The first 30-40 minutes had me cleaning off this stuff and trimming back the branches.

The hood again would not unlock. But thanks to the comments in this thread over the years from ngoma, v8volvo, and RedArrow, I was able to get it open! I clamped a small vice grip on to the cable behind the red lever and pulled (hard) and I heard the hood pop. That was a big relief! I think that indicates two things: 1) the cable likely needs a course and/or fine adjustment, and 2) the latching mechanism needs to be serviced. Opening the hood was tricky as the hinges were very stiff but I managed to get it lifted enough to expose some of the hinge apparatus and spray some PB B'laster in there. Working the hood up and down it became easier and finally I could open it fully.

http://www.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_0979a.JPG

What I found was an engine compartment that looked just like it did in 2017. There were twigs and detritus on the perimeter where the hood gap allows. But other than a small vine growing near the air filter housing everything was fine. I was fearing that a squirrel or mice had made a home and well everything would be covered in everything else.

http://www.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_0971a.JPG

I removed the fan and fan shroud so I could sneak in the Volvo special tool to rotate the engine. I could not easily get to the crank screw from below as the car was sunken in a bit. I also removed the upper front timing belt cover to make sure nothing had made a nest in it.

I then started checking the following in no particular order:

• Engine stuck? - No
• Front timing belt? - Looks "okay"?
• Can the turbo spin? - Yes
• Coolant level - Low
• Oil level - Low
• Transmission fluid level - Good!
• Power steering level - Low
• Battery (was disconnected) - 3.1 volts
• Throttle pedal - moves
• Brake pedal - does not move; I did not force it

I topped off fluids and got them to acceptable levels. At this point I wanted to check if the engine could turn over.

Yes, I totally hear that v8volvo, and it makes perfect sense. But I just wanted to hear a "rah-rah" from the engine and I would be satisfied. To do this I hooked up the battery, my jump pack, disconnected the injection pump fuel cutoff solenoid, and turned the key in the ignition switch. I got nothing. Dashboard lights lit but when going to the starting position everything went dead. I removed the jump pack and disconnected the battery and cleaned the battery terminals and cables, and connected everything back up. My volt meter showed that I had ~12 volts. I turned the key expecting failure again and what I got was "rah-rah rum-rum-rum" and in a panic I turned the car off. It had started on 2 cranks of the starter after sitting since 2017! :eek:

I ran to the back of the car and there was the smell of diesel exhaust. Faint but it was there. This result really surprised me as I assumed it would be a struggle to get it going again. Plus I disconnected the fuel cutoff solenoid. In my mental "but hows" and "what thes" I went to the engine compartment and disconnected the jump pack. I found that the positive cable of the jump pack was very warm, hot even. I turned it off and removed it. My first thought was that the glow plug relay was on. Likely the entire time. My second was that I had disconnected the wrong connector on the injection pump. That was true.

This brings me to remembering the following about the car:

• In the 10 years I have driven it it has needed a new battery twice
• If the car was to sit for a week I would disconnect the battery, or it would be low
• Sometimes the glow plug light would not illuminate when starting and I would need to tap on the GP relay to get it working

I have known that the car has a battery drain condition. More of an annoyance as the Volvo has always been a third car. However I wonder if the GP relay has been to blame the entire time? That day when I had the key in the "pre-start" position I noted that the glow plug light was not on. This further convinced me that the engine would not start and to my surprise (and horror) it did. It is surely possible that there is another source of the flat batteries, like an interior light being on, or something else. But that GP relay has been troublesome to me for years. I have a Volvo Green book and it has a good description of the glow plug circuit and its operating modes. I've been reading that over to aide in troubleshooting.

Other general observations:

• There are chunks of oil in the coolant reservoir from when the oil cooler ruptured several years ago
• The PS return hose is wet and brittle and likely the cause of the fluid level being low
• The engine harness has several wires lacking insulation
• There are cobwebs in the interior
• The radio is broken (but it was before)!

A buddy and I flushed oil out of the cooling system one summer several years ago. But I now believe a more thorough cleaning is in order. I have a used engine harness that I think I bought off Anders a few years ago that should be an improvement.

I am happy with the car's condition. It could have been much worse! I plan to be back there in about 2 weeks. It's parked on a lot that I own across the street from my parent's house. So I can kill two birds with one stone: work on the car and see the folks. :D I want to focus on:

• Field or bench test the GP relay
• Remove the master cylinder and free the stuck plunger; perhaps bench bleed it
• Inflate the tires and move the car out of the ground
  

http://www.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_0969a.JPG

http://www.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_0970a.JPG

http://www.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_0973a.JPG

http://www.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_0974a.JPG

http://www.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_0976a.JPG

Last picture is of the engine compartment after using a battery-powered leaf blower on it. :cool:

At that point I will need to decide if I am going to get the car towed to my house, or drive it. I can see pros and cons to either situation. I really don't want to change the front timing belt there, but driving the car home would be a great victory for me and the car.

Thanks for reading this far.

All too common (Volvo used Bosch biodegradable wiring in these years) and high probability this is the source of your parasitic electrical drain. On our own '84 760 it was the cause of GP malfunctioning (on when it wasn't supposed to be, other times would not energize when required), starting issues (IP fuel cutoff solenoid intermittent wiring), shorts/opens with the altitude compensator wiring, also problems at the fusebox.

Your replacement wiring loom should remedy.

Might just be a futile effort; plan on replacement and full system flush. As v8volvo mentioned above, be ready to replace calipers as needed.

Avoid depressing the plunger past its normal travel range, you'll kill the MC further by forcing the piston seals into the rough section of cylinder bore.

I know it's tempting to drive it away, esp. since it started so easily. :) What is the TB history? How old and when last changed?

I have also seen 90s era Mercedes-Benz vehicles having similar deteriorating wiring. It's a shame but it is what it is. I'll have to pull the spare harness out of storage and give it a critical eye.

I'll take a look at it. If I can rebuilt it I would like to. Mainly to learn how it works and whatnot. I've seen my fare share of YouTube videos which gives me some confidence. :D

IIRC the front timing belt was replaced "just before" the car was bought by me in ~2007. So that would make the front belt ~15 years old, with ~10,000 on it. I certainly do plan to replace it prior to starting it. My concern though is torquing the crankshaft bolt to the ~400 ft. lbs. that some of the D24 Gurus claim.

Our own v8volvo posted recently to the D24 mailing list that cleaning the bolt and clamping surface (very well), and using lite oil on the head and threads could result in applying lesser torque with more of that torque going to tightening the bolt, instead of overcoming friction requiring more (and more) torque. This makes sense but I can't help but feel that as a small dude I may not be able to get the required torque on the bolt and risk destroying the engine. I have the crankshaft counter hold (9995187) tool and the 27mm wrench extension (9995188) tool. So I guess I use those, plus a 1/2" breaker bar, with a 6' or so long pipe for more leverage. Any thoughts on that?

With special tools 5187 and 5188 you use a torque wrench, not a breaker bar. Torque to 255 ft lbs. The 5188 extension inline with the torque wrench amplifies the 255 ft lbs at the torque wrench handle to ~350 ft lbs at the bolt. Give it a shot, I bet you can do it.

BTW the greenbook specs 332 ft lbs tightening torque at the crankshaft bolt itself.

I don't own a torque wrench that goes to 255 foot pounds. That is also an issue.

Oh, okay, good to know. The green book says 255 foot pounds but I was never clear that the extension "juiced" it to 100 additional foot pounds. Interesting, thanks for that.

I didn't have one either but harbor freight sells this adapter that's apparently pretty accurate and is rated to a crazy 750 ft-lb. https://www.harborfreight.com/34-in-...ter-58707.html

Good find! 3/4" drive will need an adapter to fit tool 5188.

Awesome!
 

Oh boy that is a good find bigvolvoboy! They also have a "1/2 in. Drive 25-250 ft. lb. Digital Torque Adapter" which I guess I could connect to the 9995188 extension tool. Doing this if I can get ~250 ft/lbs. on the Quinn tool, using the extension tool that would equal ~350 ft/lbs. Right?

I'm not sure if that would all fit and not contact the radiator. Ideally I don't really want to remove the radiator, but I guess I need to pick the path of least resistance.

I haven't tried myself yet because I'm waiting on some parts but I would highly recommend removing the radiator makes life a lot easier for sure.

Seems right. We could do the math. (The greenbook has been known to incorrectly calculate other conversion numbers.:confused:) How long is the extension, socket center to socket center?

"Regular" torque wrenches are more accurate in the middle of their ranges, less so at the extremes. I don't know if that still applies to this new type. Interesting thing to research. ;)

Agreed. At least the fan clutch, fan, and shroud.

Also, since you will be moving the water pump back and forth, we like to replace the large WP o-ring gasket there with new.

The extension I am referencing is the Volvo factory tool 9995188. I would need to measure it.

Already done! I removed them to get to the front crank bolt to turn the engine over.

Oh, that's a great idea. I'll need to find a part number for it, thanks!

Rescue day #2; 04-15-2023
 

Tomorrow I'll be back at the site to work on the car. I don't have a lot to accomplish; instead several tasks that will lead to accomplishments:

• Remove the glow plug relay and take it home to bench test
• Drain engine coolant
• Disconnect transmission cooler lines from radiator
• Remove radiator
• Try to loosen the 4 6mm torx bolts from the crank damper
• Remove brake master cylinder and take home to bench test/rebuild/replace
• Remove battery (and replace)

I am removing the master cylinder due to the brake pedal being immovable. I have line wrenches that I hope will help with the brake lines at the master cylinder. Perhaps they might also help with the transmission cooler lines. PB B'laster could also prove useful.

Should I try to cover or plug the disconnected brake lines? I plan to service the brakes to whatever extent is needed. In the least flushing and bleeding the brakes, in the most replacing the calipers.

Thanks!

Be careful with this. I rounded one out once. Try all the prep tricks first:

• PB Blaster or similar.
• Clean out all debris from the inhex sockets. Use a pick.
• Sharp fresh high-quality bit.
• Hammer them head on with a punch.
• Twist clockwise first before unscrewing.
• Impact driver or impact wrench might be a good idea.

Again, try tightening them before loosening them.

Yes, to keep foreign debris out. I have used pieces of aluminum foil to "cap" them.

I managed to get some time in to work on the car between rain and thunderstorms. The hood again was a challenge to unlock, though the PB B'laster did work well on the hood hinges. Small victories!

Prior to getting to the car I went to Harbor Freight and bought one of those digital 1/2" torque adapters. I have not used it, but I did open it and got this pic to see how it would work with the radiator in place.

https://bbs.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_1029a.JPG

It does fit but it doesn't leave a lot of room to swing the breaker bar. I could remove the air filter housing but I think removing the radiator is the way to go. Or perhaps remove both the air filter housing and the radiator.

I removed the glow plug relay. I plan to test this at home. Several of the control/signal wires in the 4-pin harness are in really bad shape. The wire insulation deteriorated before my eyes with movement of the harness.

https://bbs.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_1030a.JPG

https://bbs.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_1034a.JPG

I'll have to dig out the replacement harness and add that to the list of to-do's. Next was to remove the master cylinder. The 4 brake lines and fittings were in very good shape. I have a set of line wrenches and everything came apart easy. I have the master cylinder and brake fluid reservoir in a zip top bag.

https://bbs.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_1036a.JPG

The bad news is the 4 crank damper 6mm internal torx bolts seem to be in pretty rough shape. One seems to be physically damaged. Another stripped, and yet another looks like a bit was pounded into it on the flats. Finally the fourth one looks okay?

https://bbs.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_1032a.JPG

Taking a picture was awkward but I think this helps. Here's another with a healthy dosing of PB B'laster:

https://bbs.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_1038a.JPG

Looking at the above, the bolt at ~11:00 looks like it is stripped out. The bolt at 2:00 looks okay to me. The bolt at 5:00 looks like it is stripped or "modified" on it's flats. Lastly, the bolt at 8:00 looks both stripped and perhaps physically damaged. I think I have my work cut out for me. :eek: I soaked it all down in PB B'laster.

I think it's the right move to remove the radiator, based on the HF torque adapter fitment and the condition of the 6mm internal torx bolts. At this point in the day yet another storm was coming and I was running out of time to get to an appointment. I figured I would check to see if the transmission lines into the radiator were removable. The top was very easy, perhaps even a little loose, the bottom was not. The threaded union was not turning, instead the fitting in the radiator was. The line was also moving with the union fitting. With some PB B'laster, an adjustable wrench, and a 15mm line wrench, I was able to get it loose. I think I should be able to pull the radiator next week and get more room for the crank damper bolts.

https://bbs.planetb.net/~jbg/IMG_1042a.JPG

I have some experience with removing stuck bolts. But each one presents its own challenge. Plus the location of them is an additional challenge. I'm thinking a map gas torch, spray bottle of water, Mayhew screw extractors (and drill), vice grips, and a rich tapestry of swearing, will hopefully get them out. That will likely be next week.

Photographing those crank damper screws is a difficult scene for autofocus cameras to capture clearly. Yours came out surprisingly good. Still a little indistinct to get a really good idea on the inhex conditions on those screws. Can you shine a flashlight directly into them as you take the next photos? That may give us a better idea of what next steps to take. Hard to imagine someone would reinstall chewed up screws there. :confused:

ngoma,

I'll try. I won't be back there until next weekend. Looking at the Green book those screws/bolts should only be torqued at ~15 ft/lbs. Granted I don't know how tight they really are, plus there is likely a bond of rust. I did get a ratchet on the 2:00 bolt and when I "turned" it the engine turned. The bolt felt pretty darn tight. So now I am thinking that at least there is one bolt that is a lot tighter than ~15 ft/lbs! I think my small impact driver could help with that one.

The large crank bolt, is it clamping both the harmonic damper and the crank timing belt gear onto the crank snout? The 4 6mm inhex bolts, they are screwed into the crank timing belt gear and also clamping the harmonic balancer to the crank timing belt gear?

It looks like if I removed the front crank bolt it would give me more room inside the harmonic balancer to work, and fit tools. The Green book says to first remove the 27mm bolt and then the 4 inhex bolts. If I did this would the crank timing belt gear become loose or fall off the crank? Or is there like a woodruff key on the crank snout and the timing gear to keep it all together? I don't want to disturb engine timing as I am not replacing the timing belt yet. I just want get to the 4 inhex bolts removable per preparation. Though replacing the timing belt is something I will do soon.

Here is the small parts list so far:

• Front timing belt
• Water pump o-ring
• Timing belt idler pulley
• Front crankshaft oil seal
• 4 inhex bolts (stainless steel; M8x1.25; 6mm Allen head)
• Raybestos MK1917 brake master cylinder rebuild kit (maybe?)
• Saginaw power steering pump rebuild kit
• Power steering pump bracket bushing (is 1 or 2 needed?)
• Power steering return hose
• Air conditioning, alternator, and power steering/fan belts
• Fan switch (and grommet)

Yes.

I think that's right (been a few years so not entirely sure-- hoping somebody else can double check).
No woodruff key, that's why sufficient torque on that bolt is imperative. Kind of a non-common method and the base cause for what is now probably the #1 reason for the D24 (arguably unfair) poor reputation of self destruction after TB maintenance by mechanics who do things the "normal" way.

The crank cog gear doesn't fall off so easily.

===== Later Edit ======

Not entirely correct. Please see v8volvo's better description below in post #37.

===================

Thanks. Just trying to get my head around what does what.

The plan for this weekend is to drain the coolant and remove the radiator. Once that is done I'll try and get the inhex bolts cleaned of debris and figure out a plan of attack. I am going to purchase a new 6mm inhex bit like you suggested to give me the best chance of getting a few loose.

I had another thought about this task. If I remove the radiator and the air conditioning condenser, and grille, will I have access to the harmonic balancer through the core support? Ideally, if I can see the bolts and have space for tools I believe I'll be more successful at this process.

The AC doesn't work. My thought was to verify there was no refrigerant in the system using the Schrader valve.

Well there "kind of" is a woodruff key in there, in the sense that there is a fixed key inside the crankshaft timing gear that aligns the gear with a keyway on the crank snout. The issue of course is that the key does not have anywhere near the strength necessary to perform the task of keeping the running engine in time, hence the reason for the high required torque on the big center bolt. That torque is what keeps it all together for the long term with a running engine, by force and friction alone. The key and keyway are just there to aid assembly. And what's more, they don't fit especially tightly. So anytime you loosen the big center crankshaft bolt with the 27mm head, you risk timing drifting to some degree. But thanks to the keyed installation on the crank, it can't drift more than a relatively small distance.

Here's the setup you are working with.
- The big bolt with 27mm head holds the outer "balancer" tight to the crankshaft.
- The four small bolts with 6mm inhex heads hold the timing gear to the back of the balancer (they thread into the timing gear). So, the crank turns the balancer, which turns the timing gear, which turns the timing belt.

In other words, no, the timing gear is not sandwiched between the balancer and the end of the crank. The timing gear is like a donut and just floats behind the balancer on the outer perimeter of the crank snout, it has no internal flange. The big bolt exerts no force or contact on the timing gear -- only on the balancer.

Thus if you do as you say, jbg, and remove the big central bolt, then no there isn't any risk of the whole sandwich falling apart. But what WILL happen is that the key in the timing gear (which again does not fit very tight in the crank keyway) will be the only thing maintaining engine timing in position. So you'd get some timing drift. And worst case, the entire balancer and gear assembly could work loose from the crankshaft as you tried to work on the inhex bolts.

This is just $0.02 here, but I think if I were in your position, trying/preparing to deal with those mutilated inhex bolts, I would simply not worry about them for now. The good news is that they are in there and seem to be tight so they're not a functional threat, just an obstacle for service. It will be a battle to try to do anything with them in situ, with them on the engine down there in a hard to reach location.... but, you don't have to do anything with them there. Instead my move, whenever the time comes that you want to change the timing belt, would be this:
- Loosen and remove the big center bolt (this is after bringing engine to near TDC, other timing service preliminary steps etc as per greenbook)
- Use tool 5187 per greenbook to bring engine back to TDC with the center bolt removed
- Loosen timing belt using your preferred method
- REMOVE the entire balancer/timing gear assembly from the crankshaft as one combined unit, with the 4 inhex screws still in place and tight. ;)

Now you have the assembly on the workbench where you can easily attack it with impact tools and/or heat.... or, most likely easiest of all, simply use a large drill bit and drill the heads off those bolts. Then separate the two parts, unscrew what remains of the bolts from the timing gear, and replace the hardware with new.

Fun to watch all the progress, cheers! :cool:

Thanks for the corrections. My hazy memory!

Oh my gosh, v8volvo, thank you for that very timely reply! I am literally packing up tools and stuff to head to over to the car. I think my plan will be to remove the balancer and gear today, free up the accessory belt adjusters and remove the belts, etc. I'll get the engine to TDC on cylinder 1 and follow long in the Greenbook.

The goal is to bring back parts and subsystems to work on them in my garage. Your idea is perfect! I want to drive the car out of the holes it is in, in order to get a jack under it and have a look at the brakes. I will return with the parts necessary to replace the timing belt. Hopefully I can get that doing in ~2 weeks.

I re-read what you wrote and this caught my eye. The Greenbook says to slacken the water pump bolts to release timing belt tension. What other ways are there?