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  #41  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:27 PM
happycamper happycamper is offline
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Ok so I found VE pump seal kit bosch # 1 467 010 059 it says 4,5,6 cyl mechanical VE pumps looks like it covers a lot of different makes of cars... shipped from UK for around $25 does this sound right?? Figured for the price of the two seals separately I could get a whole seal kit! Is this what I should order?
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  #42  
Old 11-13-2013, 05:56 PM
745 TurboGreasel 745 TurboGreasel is offline
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17 MM input for non-TDI VW, all head seals are the same.
this DGK126 is the kit you want
http://sto00.mailcar.net/catalog/ind...d=261038669847

You might want to check about availabliity before ordering from her. ebay seller Angelofishes also has the same kit. You may ask either one to substitute a 17MM shaft seal, or go to an industrial or bearing supplier and get a
"17x28x7mm" viton double lip rotary shaft seal" Equivalent to CR/SKF 6611(metal outer) 6614(full rubber coating) .
or Bosch PN 1 460 283 312 17x28x7.3

Anything more that $12 is a rip off.

For the pump kit, I'd accept Bosch or SPACO, not sure about any other brand.

Last edited by 745 TurboGreasel; 11-13-2013 at 06:02 PM.
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  #43  
Old 11-13-2013, 06:45 PM
ngoma ngoma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 745 TurboGreasel View Post
I think I could do the head seal on car in 20 min after a practice run.
there is some patience, and counting of screw-turns, but it isn't really hard or scary.some have even lucked out,and had surface tension hold the little washer in place without running the bolt down the middle, but I know at least one person lunched a pump that way, and I would not do it without the counter bolt.
Agreed. Cleanliness, turn screws in equal small increments, as well as the counter bolt, the counter bolt giving piece of mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 745 TurboGreasel View Post
I guess I have the right wrenches, because I seem to take the bracket off about half the time anyway.
What wrenches do you use? Gearwrenches?

Also: How do you get the pulley off while the IP is still mounted to the engine in-car?
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  #44  
Old 11-13-2013, 07:00 PM
ngoma ngoma is offline
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Good info above on the input shaft seal. Thanks, 745 TurboGreasel!

Be aware that replacing the input shaft seal may be a short-lived solution, if the shaft bushing has worn oblong (usually because of previous excessive IP belt tension). The excessive shaft runout will cause the new seal to fail.

So far happycamper, you are at hi-press head seal, and input shaft seal. Better to remove the IP for these projects. Is there a way you can measure input shaft runout to get a better idea of the bushing condition?

Yes, timing belt change requires timing tools, camshaft positioning tool, crankshaft bolt torque multiplier, and crank pulley lock holder. Sorry my terminology is off, don't have the patience to research correct tool names at the moment.
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  #45  
Old 11-13-2013, 10:42 PM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngoma View Post
Yes, timing belt change requires timing tools, camshaft positioning tool, crankshaft bolt torque multiplier, and crank pulley lock holder.
IMO you really have to also have a camshaft sprocket counterhold tool of some kind -- without it setting cam and pump timing right on is way more of a hassle and you risk hurting the belt if you let it absorb forces while torquing the bolts. A generic or TDI tool is fine on the front sprocket; on the back the genuine Volvo 9995199 tool or a home-made copy of it is about the only thing I know of that will work if the engine is in the car (240 especially) due to tight clearance.

I'm pretty certain I used a DGK-121 last time I needed a seal kit, what's the difference between the 121 and 126? I do remember having to get the 17mm shaft seal separate, the 121 kit also came with a 20mm seal.
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  #46  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:06 PM
745 TurboGreasel 745 TurboGreasel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngoma View Post
What wrenches do you use? Gearwrenches?

Also: How do you get the pulley off while the IP is still mounted to the engine in-car?
Gearwrenches? Yes, both floppy and straight, and a harbor freight stubby.
How do you get the pulley off? pry equally from 2-3 sides(wide screwdriver or wood chisel), brass hammer. apply pressure, then tap to release taper bond.
If you pry from only one side, it will be ruined. I think you could get the TDI style cam pulley puller in there if you really wanted to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by v8volvo View Post
I'm pretty certain I used a DGK-121 last time I needed a seal kit, what's the difference between the 121 and 126? I do remember having to get the 17mm shaft seal separate, the 121 kit also came with a 20mm seal.
121 is the turbo kit, having an LDA seal, but doesn't have the earlier VW cold start stuff, not sure what version of that a 240 has.

http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/v...hp?f=8&t=11314
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  #47  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:07 PM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 745 TurboGreasel View Post
My technique on the timing was set the motor at TDC,so I can get the lock pin in,then clip the belt to both pulleys, then remove the pump pulley. It's keyed and only goes on one way. with the pump pulley off, you could then remove the pump without moving the bracket. the pin has enough slop, I do't think taking the bracket off will help anything, a pencil mark will do fine.
I guess I have the right wrenches, because I seem to take the bracket off about half the time anyway.
Yeah, getting the pump and bracket off certainly is not impossible, just irritating since there's a lot of stuff for your wrench to run into... I also have never met one that couldn't be removed, but I got tired enough of fighting that battle that I finally got the skinny puller tool for yanking the sprocket off with pump in car.

I think the part that sucks isn't so much getting the pump off, but getting it back on the motor with it still mounted to bracket -- trying to get the two upper bolts started with the pump body right in the way, and then you have to go thru the whole belt tension routine which takes a few tries unless you get really lucky. I much prefer pulling pump on its own then being able to just drop it back in and have everything go back the way it was before... (edit: saves having to mess with the glow plug buss too!)

Slightly different tension wouldn't appreciably affect timing -- I think I experimented with it once and loosening belt meant slightly more advance, tightening a little less advance, but the differences were minute, ~.01mm or thereabouts.

Last edited by v8volvo; 11-13-2013 at 11:43 PM. Reason: gp's
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  #48  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:21 PM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 745 TurboGreasel View Post
Gearwrenches? Yes, both floppy and straight, and a harbor freight stubby.
You're saying you have been able to get the box ends of those wrenches down over the bolt heads on the upper two bolts behind the pump? I don't think I have ever been able to fit them in there. I guess even if I did, I would be worried about winding the bolt out far enough that it trapped the wrench since the ratchet goes only one way. (On my set anyway, maybe you have the type with two-directional ratchet.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 745 TurboGreasel View Post
How do you get the pulley off? pry equally from 2-3 sides(wide screwdriver or wood chisel), brass hammer. apply pressure, then tap to release taper bond.
If you pry from only one side, it will be ruined. I think you could get the TDI style cam pulley puller in there if you really wanted to.
I have only ever had the guts to do the screwdriver method on a pump that I knew I wasn't planning to use again. I don't think that little thrust flange on the driveshaft was really designed with the idea of handling that kind of force, though I guess I have never heard of one that broke so maybe I'm just overcautious...

Unfortunately the TDI puller doesn't even come close (3 jaw ALH style is all wrong and 2 jaw AHU/1Z type has pegs that are too fat and spaced too far apart) -- you can believe that I tried both, as well as a couple other options, before I spent the money on the Volvo tool. Problem is getting something slim enough to fit between pump gear and firewall -- on almost everything, even if you can get one with jaws sized and spaced right, the head of the forcing screw runs into the firewall. I think it would not be too difficult to modify another puller to work, but it is a pretty specialized application and I don't think it would be easy to find something that would do the job right off the shelf, other than the OE 9995204.
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  #49  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:59 PM
745 TurboGreasel 745 TurboGreasel is offline
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You have to use the open end till you can move it around some. I don't have any of the bi'direction type wrenches. mostly I reach under the pump and up.


a whole lot of force is not needed, especially if you set up some vibration with a 'tap'.

2 prong puller sort of like this I made one from a picture online, but don't recall seeing the actual VW tool. mine is 2 large bolts with ground down heads that are put through the pulley holes, and rotated to lock, then the force screw is turned.

I can't find the picture now.
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  #50  
Old 01-15-2014, 05:40 PM
RedArrow RedArrow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happycamper View Post
Meet Ronald Reagan my 244 D24....Ok so I found VE pump seal kit ... Is this what I should order?
How`s the President? ) Running again?

Last edited by RedArrow; 01-15-2014 at 05:43 PM.
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