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  #1  
Old 01-16-2015, 06:19 PM
718Pinz 718Pinz is offline
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Default New member in Albuquerque, NM

Hello everyone, Phil here. I am new to the site and, the D24t. I have a 1987 Pinzgauer 718M that I have been trying to get back to good health. I have had the IP rebuilt, injectors rebuilt, timing belt changed, all other belts changed, valve cover gasket replaced, glow plugs replaced, fuel filters and lines replaced, etc... The motor is still spewing loads of black smoke and is consuming oil at a pretty quick rate!

If anyone in my area is capable and qualified to rebuilt my motor, I would greatly appreciate a PM! So far, I am having a hard time finding a local shop who can find the parts and is familiar with the motor enough to do the work...

Anyway, I am starting my education and appreciate all the great posts so far!

Take care,
Phil
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  #2  
Old 01-16-2015, 09:30 PM
745 TurboGreasel 745 TurboGreasel is offline
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That looks pretty hot in the picture.

I'd look for a VWcentric shop, but no idea if ABQ has those.
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2015, 04:22 PM
ngoma ngoma is offline
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Black smoke usually indicates excess fuel, burning oil usually indicates worn engine (piston rings, cylinder walls). Who did the work for you? Did they do a compression check?
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  #4  
Old 01-18-2015, 12:24 AM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
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Sounds like it could all be symptoms of a tired motor, but could also be caused by a combination of relatively minor/peripheral factors that would be fairly easily resolved. It will pay to know 100% for sure where you stand before deciding on a rebuild or other comprehensive repair to what, for all we know right now, might be a perfectly healthy basic motor.

Black smoke could be fundamental mechanical problems, including low compression, but could also be excess fuel (as ngoma suggested), or, equally likely, engine not in proper timing or tune. Incorrect cam or pump timing can cause that (or failure to account for your high elevation when setting timing), or incorrect valve clearance, or inlet or exhaust restriction (including turbo issues), etc, etc, etc. Oil consumption could be tired motor, but could also be turbo problems, or other issues that you could track by diagnosis.

In short, I wouldn't jump the gun and assume you need an overhaul. That might ultimately be the case, but at this point you don't know for sure, and you certainly don't want to do that and then find out you didn't have to.

You said you had the IP rebuilt and the timing belts changed. Who did that work, and using what methods? What is the current timing setting? Why was the IP rebuilt? Why were the injectors rebuilt? What order was it all done in? Seconding ngoma's question, has compression been checked at any point, and if so, what were the results? What are the details about the oil consumption -- how much, under what conditions, what kind of oil in it, etc? Does it smoke only when you put your foot into it, or at other times as well, and what colors? How's the cold and warm starting? How's the power output? You'll want answers to every last one of these questions, and a handful others, before you'll have enough info to know what's currently going on and what the next steps need to be.

Welcome to the forum! You're in good company here, there are several Pinz owners, including forum member Hecklebone not too far from you in Denver CO, who has a 718 in similar spec to yours judging by the picture.
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Last edited by v8volvo; 01-18-2015 at 12:26 AM.
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  #5  
Old 01-18-2015, 07:12 PM
718Pinz 718Pinz is offline
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Default Welcome/issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by v8volvo View Post
You said you had the IP rebuilt and the timing belts changed. Who did that work, and using what methods? What is the current timing setting? Why was the IP rebuilt? Why were the injectors rebuilt? What order was it all done in? Seconding ngoma's question, has compression been checked at any point, and if so, what were the results? What are the details about the oil consumption -- how much, under what conditions, what kind of oil in it, etc? Does it smoke only when you put your foot into it, or at other times as well, and what colors? How's the cold and warm starting? How's the power output? You'll want answers to every last one of these questions, and a handful others, before you'll have enough info to know what's currently going on and what the next steps need to be.

Welcome to the forum! You're in good company here, there are several Pinz owners, including forum member Hecklebone not too far from you in Denver CO, who has a 718 in similar spec to yours judging by the picture.

Thanks for the warm welcome and advice! I appreciate all your input. I have not yet decided on a rebuild, at least not until I do more testing and research. Here are some of the basic answers to the majority of the questions posed so far.

The IP was rebuilt by Central Motive, a certified Bosch repair shop.

The timing and all settings were done in accordance with Bosch/Pinzgauer specs.

Again, timing was set to Pinzgauer spec and adjusted for altitude.

The IP and injectors were rebuilt after the previous shop "adjusted" the pump for altitude and to address the heavy smoke...they decided that they needed to cut the seal on the IP, over tighten the IP belt and ruined seals, adjust the timing after changing the belt, timing it 28deg. out, and generally destroying my starter...

The injectors were rebuilt because...why leave them as they were since the IP was being rebuilt?

The compression will be checked this weekend.

I will check the turbo for leaks this week if time permits as I have been told there was oil present on one side (can't remember which).

I use Rotella 5W-30 and it can go through almost a quart with some hard driving.

The smoke starts out heavy and black at startup, blows lighter when warm and then black when I step on it (leaving mosquitoes dead for generations wherever I drive ). It seems the smoke clears up a bit when the turbo is fully spooled up.

Cold starting is usually hard but, once warmed up, she fires up immediately.

Power output "feels" off...like there is more to be had only, it just won't come (if that makes any sense?)

As you can probably tell, from my limited descriptions, I am no mechanic. I like to do things my self, as much as possible but, have never really been trained/mentored by anyone.

I love the hell out of my Pinz and, can't wait to enjoy her (Da Pig) at her prime. I have a lot of plans for her, mostly preparing for Overland journeys! Of course, I have a ways to go and a lot of fixing to do first... I look forward to learning from this wealth of knowledge here.

Take care,

Phil
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2015, 07:13 PM
718Pinz 718Pinz is offline
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Default Oil consumption

Hello again. I have rebuilt the motor and still in the process of the break-in, but I am still having an issue with oil consumption. Here is what I have done to date:

1: machine shop rebuilt the block and head
2: installed rebuilt IP and Rebuilt injectors
3: timed for elevation
4: timed IP (done by Central Motive Power)
5: rebuilt turbo

One thing I have noticed is that a lot of misted oil is being blown out of the Pressure Control Vave and into the intake pipe (probably contributed to the heavy coking in the turbo). Also, it seems to increase when under a heavy load while climbing hills and mountain roads (this is an 7k lb truck!)

It does seem to smoke way less than before, and I do intend to increase turbo boost since I am at largest oversized pistons and three notch head gasket. Does anyone have any advice for me on this? There are no leaks on the block at all, aside from a slight leak on my power steering high pressure hose.

Thanks in advance,

Phil
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2015, 09:26 PM
ngoma ngoma is offline
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From your description (excessive blow-by on newly rebuilt engine), some possible causes are:

1. Cylinders bored out of round or too large for pistons
2. Improper cylinder honing
3. Idling during break-in, especially during initial period
4. Piston ring quality
5. Piston ring install errors

Please describe your break-in process.

Piston/ring brand?

What does the machine shop say?
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2015, 01:51 PM
718Pinz 718Pinz is offline
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I actually followed the instructions out of the manual, as well as information given to me from The Swedish Brickyard. The pistons are German KS pistons. The only idling during break-in was to allow the engine to warm a little before the tightening of the head bolts the last bit. Of course, the machine shop did not do any boring until after the pistons arrived at their shop. This machine shop has a solid reputation, and build a lot of high horsepower motors. I will stop by there and talk to them about this tomorrow.

I don't have much in the way of smoke, and it is definitely not oil laden. I think that the small amount of smoke I do have is probably due to the fact that the compression was lowered slightly with the thicker, three notch, gasket. I plan on increasing my boost a bit to compensate for that, but I have not gotten the controller or gauge yet (any advice on that?).

As I said in the previous post, or at least alluded to, I was wondering if it could be due to the PCV? A friend of mine has suggested that I delete the PCV, as that was the advice he had gotten from his mechanic, who is a German Master Mechanic from Mercedes Benz.

Phil
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2015, 09:28 PM
ngoma ngoma is offline
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PCV-- are you talking about the hockey puck on top of the valve cover?
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  #10  
Old 11-26-2015, 06:03 PM
718Pinz 718Pinz is offline
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Default Pcv

Yes, that is exactly what I was trying to describe. As you can tell, I am not a mechanic, lol
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