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Old 09-26-2012, 04:03 PM
sdturbo sdturbo is offline
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Default D24t Land Rover/glow plug/injector questions.

My name is Josh, I am new here but not to Volovs or diesels. I own Yoshifab which makes a bunch of aftermarket parts for red block volvos. My daily driver is a 245 with a 1.9TDI swap that I have been daily driving since 06.

My latest project is a D24T powered 97 Land Rover discovery. The motor is out of an 86 745 with 101k original miles. I got to see the motor start and run at the dismantler it came from and seemed to be in generally good repair. I have had the truck up and running for almost a week now. Still sorting through all the misc wiring getting all the lights to work, glow plugs to behave, and keep the alt charging. The list is getting shorter and I am starting to come up with some questions.

1. It seems that the glow plugs stay on for about 30 seconds under any conditions. From what I understand they are supposed to shut off once the engine is running. How does the glow plug relay know the engine is running?

2. I was seeing only about 8psi of boost. I decided to remove the egr and over boost valve and run 12v to the alt compensator and it went up to about 10. Still seems rather laggy, anything else I should check?

3. My number one injector is blowing fuel bubbles out of the base. Is this a common problem? I assume its just a seal but never really seen anything like that before.


Trying to get this thing running as best I can before I do stage zero and turn the fuel up. Seems to run nice and while it is on a heavy ass 4wd truck it does seem like it runs out of steam pretty quick. I can manage 60mph on flat ground but its work. Throttle seems to do nothing past 50%.

I have new conti belts and all the tools to set timing. I am looking for some new nozzles and shims to service the injectors. Bosch nozzles seem to be crazy cheap but I read here that monarks are the way to go. Only issue is I cannot find anyone that sells them. I have emailed the contact posted here and got no love. Any suggestions?
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:37 PM
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Jason Jason is offline
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Hello and welcome!

1. The gp relay is temp sensitive, it has it's own temp sender on the engine, same as the sender for the dash gauge. Sounds like its disconnected so it thinks it's freezing cold. It can't tell whether the engine is running or not.

2. The stock turbo has a tiny exhaust housing and it should spool quickly.. Check the obvious stuff like exhaust gaskets leaking. Retarded timing could be contributing to the issue. Get everything set correctly then turn up the pump, more fuel will spool it more quickly. When you time it take the time to check that the cam is timed to the crank correctly at TDC. I have worked on one with the cam and crank a few degrees out and it was a total turd.

3. Not sure if you mean leaking at the base where it meets the head, or the base of the injector body leaking where it is threaded together. At the head there is a heat shield which is also the "seal" to the head, though it's metal. They are one time use and crush when you torque the injector down. If the body of the injector is leaking it will need to be disassembled, the halves lapped and reassembled.

Not sure who has the monarch nozzles, I'm running the gtd nozzles and haven't had an issue. Good luck with it and please post up some pics! Always interested to see a d24 swap, not many on here...

Jason
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:52 PM
745 TurboGreasel 745 TurboGreasel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdturbo View Post

My latest project is a D24T powered 97 Land Rover discovery. The motor is out of an 86 745 with 101k original miles. I got to see the motor start and run at the dismantler it came from and seemed to be in generally good repair. I have had the truck up and running for almost a week now. Still sorting through all the misc wiring getting all the lights to work, glow plugs to behave, and keep the alt charging. The list is getting shorter and I am starting to come up with some questions.

1. It seems that the glow plugs stay on for about 30 seconds under any conditions. From what I understand they are supposed to shut off once the engine is running. How does the glow plug relay know the engine is running?
Afterglow is fine or good, there is a circuit to detect rekeying that causes glows not to cycle if you ran them in the last 20 sec or so. I think this is in the module on the fender.
30 sec on time is most likely the temp sensor just ahead of #1glow not connected or bad wire(don't know I've ever seen one that was still insulated). If you have Duratherms, 30 sec on time is nothing to worry about.


2. I was seeing only about 8psi of boost. I decided to remove the egr and over boost valve and run 12v to the alt compensator and it went up to about 10. Still seems rather laggy, anything else I should check?
10-11 PSI is stock. the alt compensator should have 12V anytime you are under 6000 feet. It botches your timing without power.
EGR should not be a factor at WOT, unless the valve was coked open, but I don't run one. What RPM do you make boost at, and do you have smoke will play heavily in diagnosing this. Also exhaust?
Does the cold start device work? (~1500 RPM idle on cold start) they usually don't, which again screws the timing and idle. disable it by pulling the block at the end of the cable, and rotating it 90* in relation to it's U shaped seat to slack the cable.wrong adjustments are often made to compensate for this failed thing.
Do you have unrestricted fuel line, and no bubbles in the return?


3. My number one injector is blowing fuel bubbles out of the base. Is this a common problem? I assume its just a seal but never really seen anything like that before.
No It's usually the feed fitting not on right, or a return hose that was damaged in handling(bumped with a wrench tightening the feed?) dripping down then boiling off.
the injectors have a seal washer under them that has to be new each time its removed, but that wold normally leak exhaust.
If the body halves are overtightened together you can crack them, loose they may leak it should be 55 Ft/LB which is also install torque. No seal between halves.
If the injector is removed with too small a socket, the return nipples can get cracked.
When removing injectors, always pull the wrench toward the motor, away risks breaking the boss off the head, no bueno.



Trying to get this thing running as best I can before I do stage zero and turn the fuel up. Seems to run nice and while it is on a heavy ass 4wd truck it does seem like it runs out of steam pretty quick. I can manage 60mph on flat ground but its work. Throttle seems to do nothing past 50%.

I have new conti belts and all the tools to set timing. I am looking for some new nozzles and shims to service the injectors. Bosch nozzles seem to be crazy cheap but I read here that monarks are the way to go. Only issue is I cannot find anyone that sells them. I have emailed the contact posted here and got no love. Any suggestions?
Sounds to me like you are not getting full throttle. I bet if I put an egg under my pedal I'd max out at 60 too. The car doesn't even come alive till half throttle/ 3000 RPM.
Do you have a tach working? You should see wastegate limited boost by 3000 RPM, and overboost valve open at 11PSI(you clearly feel the car fall flat on its face) ,3100RPM if you block the signal line. Spool about 500 earlier with an MBC helps alot with the M46.

I guess there are some things to look at.
Welcome to the board, I'm new here too.
I'll PM you my number, I can talk a lot faster than I type.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:16 PM
sdturbo sdturbo is offline
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I am guessing the cold start device isn't working. So does it fail in the advanced or retarded position?

I am getting mechanical full throttle but I don't think im getting the fuel I am asking for, the pump does nothing after half throttle. I get no smoke, see no boost at all until about 3k, boost goes for 5 to 10 psi by 5k. No real noticeable power along with that boost (5000lb truck so im not sure what to expect). I am thinking I may need a lift pump since the tank is now a couple feet lower than it would be in the volvo.

What are "gtd" nozzles? The injector is leaking at the base, I will replace the gasket when i do the injector rebuild. I need a source for a valve cover gasket, nozzles, shims, and lower injector seals.
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:11 PM
745 TurboGreasel 745 TurboGreasel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdturbo View Post
I am guessing the cold start device isn't working. So does it fail in the advanced or retarded position?
advanced, idle rests against the ball stud on the cold start arm--- At least until someone moves it to alleviate 1500 RPM idle.

I am getting mechanical full throttle It may look like you are, but if the pump has been tampered with, and the arm is on the wrong spline, bets are off. does it drop right to idle when you let off? If not, good chance of 1spline off. but I don't think im getting the fuel I am asking for, the pump does nothing after half throttle. I get no smoke, see no boost at all until about 3k, boost goes for 5 to 10 psi by 5k.Def not right. No real noticeable power along with that boost (5000lb truck so im not sure what to expect). maybe 26s?:lol: I am thinking I may need a lift pump since the tank is now a couple feet lower than it would be in the volvo. It should still work, esp. at the low end, but the Landy bits might be hampering things? Did the car sit a long time? Sometimes the vanes in the lift pump stick after a sit and it performs poorly.
TBH, I would put a fuelcan on the roof, and go for a drive.

What are "gtd" nozzles? Bosch DN0 SD 274The injector is leaking at the base, I will replace the gasket when i do the injector rebuild. I need a source for a valve cover gasket, nozzles, shims, and lower injector seals.
I suggest the rubber reusable gasket like Goetze http://www.autopartsway.com/Part.cfm...FQjZQgodR2YACA although Rock Auto has cork ones for $5 on closeout. any shop working on vw diesels will have the seal washers, and any tractor or injection shop will have shims.

Other thoughts, does the turbo spin OK, and is the spacship on top of the pump getting signal from the intake manifold?
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:11 PM
ngoma ngoma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Hello and welcome!

1. The gp relay is temp sensitive, it has it's own temp sender on the engine, same as the sender for the dash gauge.
GP controller on my car gets its temp signal from a second temp sensor, located at the back of the head, between the rear cam sprocket and IP sprocket. When disconnected it will give full glow time each time ignition is switched to on position.
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:29 PM
sdturbo sdturbo is offline
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Turbo spins fine, does not make any funny sounds. "space ship" had a rip in the line going to it but replacing that made no difference. I am about to go play with the fuel stuff right now. Will report back with results.
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:46 PM
745 TurboGreasel 745 TurboGreasel is offline
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Without the boost signal, it would cut you to near NA power...I did have one that was sticky a for a few hours, then freed up.
Best of luck to ya.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:06 PM
sdturbo sdturbo is offline
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So i plumed a gallon can of diesel in and wedged it in the engine bay. Power was SLIGHTLY better but still nothing to write home about. I pulled the return line and took a fuel sample. The fuel dribbled out and seemed to have a lot of air in it. I put some in a clear cup and it seemed pretty dark. The diesel out of the jug looks like cooers light and the stuff out the return line looks like sierra navada. I am now thinking the pump may have sat for awhile and is a bit gummed up. Any advice/thoughts?

Edit: let it run for awhile, coming out clean now. Still laggy though.

Edit: Pulls past 60 now... slowly but it would probablly hit 70 if you kept your foot in it long enough. Disabled the cold start deal and it seems to spool a little better. I am thinking its time for belts and setting the timing now. Thanks for all the help.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:41 PM
745 TurboGreasel 745 TurboGreasel is offline
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Add a double dose of brand name diesel additive, and or ATF, run a few minutes and shut down.
Remove the OUT banjo bolt, inspect its screen for debris or polymerized veg oil, and wash it out.
Put it back together and give it some more exercise, or sleep on it...
Fair chance of it working much better after a day or a week.

Also be sure it is an out bolt at the out position, and not one at the inlet. They are easily recognized by the OUT stamped on the head.

PPS; If there are any bubbles in the return something isn't right. Running from a can, there aren't many sources of air, mainly the 17MM pump drive shaft seal and the fuel filter. If you rig a lift pump, it will pressurize the case, and you can see any suction leaks as a drip. 5-15 PSI should run fine, and 60PSI is within normal operating range if you just want to pump it up and look for a leak.

Ive had 6-8? pumps, and not one has ever had a good cold start. I don't think it's much needed in CA.
..
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