fuel pump - identical to Cummins application BOSCH?

[kcfoxie]

Greetings,

My D24 240 is about to be shipped to me from texas. It's a donor motor for my one-owner 1990 DL Wagon (305k miles on redblock).

The pump was rebuilt by some shop in Dallas and car wouldn't start afterwards. The seller is very well known for working with TDIs; but this is not a TDI. He gave up and I got the car for what I feel was a good price w/ shipping (& the timing belt tools included - score).

I'm the recent buyer of the last of the last Sweedish Brickyard 240 Diesel Tachometers. I just bought the bellhousing for my M47 transmission (the D24 is an auto - unacceptable).

Just want to gauge opinions: is it best to rebuild the pump with Giles, or should I just source a replacement unit off a 97 Cummins? To my understanding these are the same units. Is there a bigger pump for better performance available?

Thanks!

[745 TurboGreasel]

Opposite rotation, and only early Cummins use the VE pump.
Verify pump time and throttle splines, if it fails, send it back to the shop.
note you can time the pump 180 out internally, and it gets really hard to start.
With the key on, you can turn the engine by hand, and watch when fuel spills from the delivery valves to confirm.
You can get a 12MM head for the pump, but it might not last at high RPMs.

[ngoma]

Welcome.

Cummins VE application is same VE family, w/ numerous variations. Opposite rotation, as noted above, and the governor lever (immed. attached to the throttle shaft) is completely different, also the cold start and advance pathways are different. Still, the Cummins websites have helpful assembly/resealing/adjustments/performance enhancements that apply to the D24 VE IPs.

Starting these after IP removal/rebuilding can frustrate the best of us.

Make sure the timing is correct.

Fill the IP w/ fuel (either pull thru the outflow port w/ vacuum or force thru the inflow port w/ outboard hand bulb primer or temp. elec. fuel pump).

Attempt to start engine w/ 10 sec. bursts of the starter, allowing a few minutes for it to cool down between attempts, or you WILL burn out the starter, which are getting hard to come by.

Hold FULL THROTTLE while starting.

Patience. It can take a long time to get the fuel flowing thru the injector lines to out of the injectors.

If the car has been sitting for some time, give a squirt of oil in either the injector holes or GP holes. No more than a teaspoon worth or you risk hydrolocking.

RE: Giles IP rebuild: What are your goals?

[kcfoxie]

Good to know about the starter -- may try and find one just because of age (spare parts for cars over 20 years is a wise idea).

As for Giles; I just want the pump to work correctly and be capable of any type of fuel that it sees. I don't have any explicit plans to run B100 in it but I do frequent places with B20; I know the lines need to be replaced as well -- that'll happen when I swap this into my wagon.

Ultimately, dreaming big, I'd like to turbo this (using factory head and manifolds) and make it 'quick' as a brick can be that's dependable. I actually intend to drive this car to and from work, as well as to and from my parents farm in northern mississippi (I'm in central North Carolina). I know this won't get 50mpg like my TDIs have; but I'm OK with that. So long as it gets better than 31mpg on the highway -- which is what the B230F wagon is currently doing with the M47.

Sent the check off today. Should have title tues-wed of next week; car perhaps a week after that. The diesel bell housing has shipped from FL. It's a tad surreal, I have to say, that this is even happening. I bought the wagon July 1 and have put over 5000 miles on it. I love the car, but miss the power and economy of my diesel engine. I've never had a big diesel (6 or more cyl) so this whole project intrigues me. All my diesels have been 4-cyl VWs, primarily TDIs (VE and PD) but my dad has a 1.6L non-hydraulic valve Golf (86 model, last year made in the US of A) and so I'm familiar with the 'quirks' of diesels of this vintage. It also helps one of my best friends rebuilt a 1.6 Turbo Jetta Coupe (1984, Mark I) ... he has compression and pump timing tools, plus an extensive amount of knowledge of how to work on these types of motors. He's already more excited than I am about this whole project.

Goal 1: Make the sedan function.
Goal 2: prep the wagon (paint, suspension)
Goal 3: Marry the engine and transmission into it's new body

I don't expect to have this all done before next summer; and even that's an aggressive time frame. Either way, I WILL have my Diesel 240.

[and I wouldn't mind a 760 wagon; but it's easier to find unicorn meat than it is one of those in any kind of condition]

[745 TurboGreasel]

Was that an automotive bellhousing?

[ngoma]

So, if you end up needing IP rebuilt, you may not need a Giles IP rebuild (extensive performance upgrades). Your best friend might have a line on some reputable local IP rebuilders, which could save you some coin.

I have heard 240 engine bay presents challenges for fitting a turbo.

[kcfoxie]

From what I've read the problem is the oil pan, use the NA oil pan and make your own oil return line connection for the turbo... otherwise it all should fit.

Guess I'll find out when the time comes - my dad can weld, and I'm not opposed to relocating things. I have a very hard time believing that it won't fit given you can put a 305 V8 into these cars, which are much larger in physical dimensions than the D24.

[kcfoxie]

Originally Posted by 745 TurboGreasel

Was that an automotive bellhousing?

It's a bell housing for the transmission; car has an auto I intend to keep my M47 5-speed and swap the rear diffs between the cars.

[Jason]

If you want to make big power (eg. 12mm pump) giles is the man. However he will only use Bosch head and rotor assemblies... I talked to him about one and it was going to be right at $2,000!! $1000 for a standard hot rod rebuild ans another $800ish for the left hand rotation head and rotor. I was attempting to build my own but quickly discovered there are so many critical measurements and settings that require special tool, a pile of different shims, etc... If its not just right it will run like crap. I'm sure it would run its ass off, but I only paid 1500 for the whole car in the first place, 2k is just not gonna happen..
jason

[kcfoxie]

OK.... thanks for the tips! I got the car to start and straightened it up in my storage unit ... def has issues as it takes some pedal to make it move, but that could be the transmission. It smokes pretty bad... like...all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UimfjzT33Q0 <-- Car starting and surprising the hell out of me...
http://youtu.be/BIn2iLDqBAM <--- Smoke test