cold start removal

[jpliddy]

yes NGOMA
just wanted to test this C.S. on the car with the cable disconnected.
just want the car starting as its been
made too. but there seems to be other ways I.E.
make it as a manuel choke set up to advance the timing for a short time.
but not sure about this one either

[745 TurboGreasel]

The only thing you need to test it is to rotate the block at the end of the cable 90 degrees and warm up the car. If you have the engine running, I'm pretty sure you can even do that without any tools.

[jpliddy]

hi 745 turbo greasel
that lock is to tight to turn unless i loosen the nut that holds the cable the machine screw the whole set up is very tight when hot and cold so something not right .
if i undo the nut and machine screw will that cause any problems as the wax stat odes not move so maybe its been set up wrong i could take it all the C.S. device off would that be ok as how things are now nothing is moving .
thanks for you comments

[v8volvo]

It sounds like it is probably stuck in "cold" mode, which is what happens when the wax t-stat quits. You're saying that it's always tight and always in the same position regardless of whether the engine is hot or cold, right?

To disengage it, you have to pull forward on the advance lever with quite a bit of force -- more than you will expect -- in order to relieve tension on the cable so that you can free up the collar to rotate. It may seem stuck or very tight, but it *will* move. You don't need to undo anything else.

Does this make sense? I think we have tried describing this a few different ways here but it is a little difficult to visualize without looking right at it. Just to be completely clear, again, you don't need to remove anything or touch the 10mm nut on the cable end in order to disconnect the CS device -- just loosen the cheesehead screw and collapse the end.

If it's tight, and you're running cold advance all the time, then you should also have a fast idle at the same speed you had before all this work was done -- unless someone moved the ball stud on the top of the advance lever that blips the throttle lever up. Look close at the interface between the two levers. Does the throttle lever rest against the advance lever, or against its own stop screw on the top of the pump?

[745 TurboGreasel]

It's always supposed to be tight with the engine off.
If you turn do anything but turn the lock block, it's a factory adjustment which will cost you $350 to $700 to restore.
If the engine is running, the advance lever is easier to pull forward unless your pump internal pressure is very low.


Before you mess with it, with your engine cold;

1 Does the ball stud cold idle contact the downward tab of the throttle arm? yes/no
2 Is there a dirt shadow showing the 'diesel engineers' have moved the cold idle ball stud yes/no
3 The ball stud is NOT at the end of its adjustment slot yes/no
4 Does the hot idle tab of the throttle arm rest against its stop screw? yes/no
5 Is the cold advance arm resting against the stop tab on the pump body?(there is a gap at green dash in pic) yes/no
6 Is idle speed above 1200 RPM yes/no

Now warm up the engine and have another look

1 Is idle speed below 900 RPM yes/no
2 Is the cold advance arm resting against the stop tab on the pump body?(there is NO gap at green dash in pic) yes/no
3 Does the hot idle tab of the throttle arm rest against its stop screw? yes/no
4 Does the ball stud cold idle contact the downward tab of the throttle arm? yes/no

Depending what you find, it may or may not be necessary to manipulate the unit itself or perform other tests.

proper condition findings are in green. If you get green across the board, it's working.
Please make an effort to record all the answers in order and post them here.
yes/no
yes/no

[v8volvo]

Originally Posted by 745 TurboGreasel

It's always supposed to be tight with the engine off.
If you turn do anything but turn the lock block, it's a factory adjustment which will cost you $350 to $700 to restore.
If the engine is running, the advance lever is easier to pull forward unless your pump internal pressure is very low.


Before you mess with it, with your engine cold;

1 Does the ball stud cold idle contact the downward tab of the throttle arm? yes/no
2 Is there a dirt shadow showing the 'diesel engineers' have moved the cold idle ball stud yes/no
3 The ball stud is NOT at the end of its adjustment slot yes/no
4 Does the hot idle tab of the throttle arm rest against its stop screw? yes/no
5 Is the cold advance arm resting against the stop tab on the pump body?(there is a gap at green dash in pic) yes/no
6 Is idle speed above 1200 RPM yes/no

Now warm up the engine and have another look

1 Is idle speed below 900 RPM yes/no
2 Is the cold advance arm resting against the stop tab on the pump body?(there is NO gap at green dash in pic) yes/no
3 Does the hot idle tab of the throttle arm rest against its stop screw? yes/no
4 Does the ball stud cold idle contact the downward tab of the throttle arm? yes/no

Depending what you find, it may or may not be necessary to manipulate the unit itself or perform other tests.

proper condition findings are in green. If you get green across the board, it's working.
Please make an effort to record all the answers in order and post them here.
yes/no
yes/no

Nicely done.

[745 TurboGreasel]

By the time it's all done, I hope to have a decent FAQ article, despite never having used one of those devices myself.

[jpliddy]

thanks turbo greaseal and V8volvo
i will go through the methods you have asked me to do .
when you say if something is not set up correctly and will need to be set up on a test bench .
does that mean removing the injection pump from the car ,
and thats where the high costs come in ?
regards
jim liddy

[jpliddy]

ok guys
i have had another good look at C.S. device .
i am going to swap the wax stat for the second hand one i have first
to confirm if my old one is permanently in the cold postion and not releasing the plunger so hopefully i can just unbolt it and get the other one back on with the info i have read on the previous posts. does that sound practical
for a start

[v8volvo]

jpliddy, those of us who have spent time posting comments here are trying to point out that replacing parts of the CS device, or removing it, is logically not likely to solve the actual symptoms you have described the engine as having. So my answer, at least, would be that no, this doesn't sound like the right way to start.

Keep in mind that the concern you have is slow idle and smoke on cold start, and reduced MPG. When the cold start device fails, it fails in the "cold" position and doesn't back off the advance and fast idle as engine warms up. If the system is in fact broken, fixing it will only change the device's behavior when the engine is warm. In other words, it's more or less a 100% guarantee that replacing that CS t-stat is *not* going to give you any improvement in the symptoms you are concerned about.

We can help you figure this out, but in order to provide useful guidance, we will need some detailed info from you.

My personal suggestion is to not replace any parts now, or take anything apart, but rather to gather more information and try to apply a linear and logical diagnostic process based on what that info indicates.

I think you should start by printing off a hard copy of the checklist that 745 posted above, going through it exactly in order, answering all questions, and reporting results here. Better still if you can provide a picture or two.