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  #1  
Old 03-30-2015, 11:39 AM
1488 1488 is offline
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Default Electronically controllable IP on a d24t engine

Hello good d24t fans. Does anybody here know if there are any options to have an electronicaly controllable IP on a d24?. The thing is that I'm getting tired of doing all the adjustments under the hood while it would way more comfortabe to do that in the cockpit as you would with an programmable ip. I don't know much about electronic ve pumps but I was thinking if there is a way for swapping parts or if someone makes special kits to make adjusting the pump more easy.
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:50 AM
745 TurboGreasel 745 TurboGreasel is offline
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Bosch sells a motorsport ECU for abut 3300, but then you have to program it.
the ol scredriver looks good again.
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Old 03-31-2015, 01:13 PM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
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I wonder if you could make something work by building a hybrid pump from an Audi 5cyl TDI IP and a D24 6cyl camplate/head/rotor and adapting a VAG EDC ECU.... but you would have to find some extremely clever ways to give the ECU all the necessary sensor inputs (crank position, intake air temp and pressure, baro pressure, coolant temp, drive by wire throttle, injector needle lift or some other means of feedback timing control, etc, etc, etc) and get some very clever tuning done to make everything play happily and I don't even know if enough is interchangeable that the Frankenstein pump would be possible.

Or, run a second timing belt off the front of the crank so that things spin the right way, and put a VP44 on it? Those don't need a needle lift sensor either....

Benefits would certainly be nice -- temp-optimized timing, engine speed control, smoke control, etc. This is one of the reasons I can never understand MTDI conversions, IMO the TDI's electronic control is as much of a benefit as the DI is. But in this application where you would really have to reinvent the wheel to get there, agree that screwdriver adjustments pretty clearly win in the cost-benefit analysis...
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:13 AM
1488 1488 is offline
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Oh wow, the information you gave is very interesting, thank you! I'd love to take on a challenge like this, but that would take me lots of time to finish and I really don't have that much time right now.. especially when my current engine is about to fall apart. ^^ But at least I have something to think about in the future, thanks

Last edited by 1488; 04-02-2015 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 04-06-2015, 03:45 PM
sdturbo sdturbo is offline
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Timing control would be the real advantage. It would be really nice to adjust timing in different load conditions. This is worth looking at to have some control over boost enrichment. I have been playing with timing advance a lot. If I weren't so busy I would come up with a solution to make it tune able.

http://dmn.kuulalaakeri.org/vnt-lda/
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Old 04-06-2015, 11:12 PM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
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Yes and fully-integrated charge pressure control, temp-responsive timing, etc would be great benefits too. It's an interesting discussion although strictly a theoretical one.

Yet, if mapping pump timing to engine load is the only goal, wonder if you could build a fairly simple external IP pressure circuit between the advance piston housing and the IP transfer pump inlet, with a duty-cycled solenoid (e.g. similar to k-jet frequency valve) to control pressure to the advance piston and thereby effect changes to dynamic timing. You'd still need some serious EMS wizardry to make it play, and at minimum you'd need some kind of crank and cam or IP timing reference inputs, maybe an optical trigger wheel on the front of the crank could work. Still seems like a lot more trouble than it's worth, but if you've maxed out the capability of the mechanical setup or your range of operating conditions is too broad to be able to optimize a "dumb" pump to fully take advantage of, perhaps it's the next realm of exploration...

Or if binary adjustments are good enough (or better than nothing), you could pretty easily use the existing high-altitude compensation solenoid wired to a throttle switch (or other mechanism) to make timing somewhat responsive to load. Could even design a fancy circuit that accounts for other variables (e.g. engine speed, charge pressure, etc) as well. That would at least give you some on-the-fly timing control, albeit not precise and only in one rather large step.

Very interesting to think about. All of this would be chasing the ideal of just having full electronic control, though, without that everything else is a band-aid -- the above is the same type of thought process that led to feedback carburetors. Probably better off just sticking in a 5cyl TDI if it became truly critical to have electronic control, even though the loss of the 6cyl sound and dynamics would be a downgrade...
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Old 04-07-2015, 03:46 PM
sdturbo sdturbo is offline
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Direct injection would kill a lot of the fun. Really timing control is desirable and isn't that far fetched of an idea. If I can get some projects out of the shop and some "free" time again it is something that would be worth messing with. Its not like adding a crank trigger is a huge project.
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Old 04-07-2015, 08:02 PM
745 TurboGreasel 745 TurboGreasel is offline
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I don't think yo need a crank trigger, just use the lift sensor of an IDI Ford, and call that '0'
Replace the OUT bolt with an adjustable orofice, and you pretty much have control over the timing curve.

Still, given the energy spent turning VP's into dumb PPumps, I'm not sure how much value there is besides emission control.
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Old 04-07-2015, 09:52 PM
ngoma ngoma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 745 TurboGreasel View Post
Replace the OUT bolt with an adjustable orofice
Like a needle valve?

This method would alter the internal IP fuel pressure differential, which controls the dynamic timing section inside the IP.
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  #10  
Old 04-09-2015, 07:28 AM
1488 1488 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 745 TurboGreasel View Post
Still, given the energy spent turning VP's into dumb PPumps, I'm not sure how much value there is besides emission control.
Reduced EGT, better economy and increased longetivity are the things I had in my mind.
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