D24T.com  

Go Back   D24T.com > Forum Info > New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-03-2013, 02:43 PM
happycamper happycamper is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Corvallis, OR
Vehicle: 1984 244 D24
Posts: 20
Default Meet Ronald Reagan my 244 D24!

Hey everyone I am brand new to the site but been browsing it a few months now since i got my '84 244 D24 this spring...

My name is Ross I am located near Corvallis, OR and I see there are a few of you from not too far away! So I just got 'Ronald Reagan' (PO named him but it stuck!) this spring... the female PO lived on campus found the ad on CL for a non-running D24... anyways totally lucked out the thing had a couple leaking injector lines... found a mercedes diesel at pick apart and snagged couple lines off it and bent to fit and drove Ronald home!! for $600 (on payments too she was cool.... and cute!) Had about 178K on him then and sitting with 183k now..

Anyways don't need to draw this out too long sure you guys are gonna wanna see pics too... anyways long story short Ronald died in the middle of summer and I was workin 12 hour days so started driving my '70 westy project (only 20k on engine Been driving Felix now for a few months and finally the wetness is here and the farm work has slowed to a relaxed pace... giving me time to deal with Ronald finally!! My daily driver and project need to switch roles again soon... (felix needs new canvas for his pop top)

Currently cleaning garage space so I can start working on him this week and I am sure I will be asking a lot of questions once I dive in. This is my first diesel car but I am a farmer and have worked around diesel engines over the last few years but am by no means an expert! So what happened you're wondering...

Well after driving for a month or so was having starting issues... bypassed temp control so i had manual toggle to activate glow plug relay... didn't help. Replaced all glow plugs and this helped a little...

but then it got impossible to start (cold start thermostat maybe?) so i started using Ether... every day... needless to say he stopped starting with ether after a month or so of that... I have since been reading more about these engines and learning a lot... like to never use ether on these engines!! Also learned of the necessary frequent valve adjustments (which I never did and doubt female PO student did either) must be a VW thing LOL!

Before the starting issues there was considerable blow-by and he burned a quart of oil every 500 miles or less. Always smoked when started and I would let run in driveway till it cleared and drive all day without smoke. Always ran smooth! (But slow

So I will keep posting as I make progress... first thing is valve adjustment hopin to get really lucky here!!!! I am open to any and all suggestions before I dive in but please don't bash me too hard I know I abused this thing I am a noob! And I may be willing to sell if I hit a road block so your kindness may come back around if your in the market for a D24 but I really want to get this thing back on the road at any expense short of a trip to the machine shop!! The car is in great shape otherwise...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg iphone uploads 040.jpg (94.0 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg iphone uploads 305.jpg (95.8 KB, 30 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-03-2013, 04:25 PM
RedArrow RedArrow is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New York
Vehicle: 1986 Volvo 745 TD
Posts: 900
Default oh, nooo

Cast that can far away into the farthest corner of your garage!

PLEASE PLEASE stay away from starter fluids!!
745 TurboGreasel says it should be `installed in my trash can`.
I say `being with a nice lady of your choice, Vi@gra is not needed AND it should never* be used at all` .

Replace the fuel filter immediately (dont forget to FIND&remove that old O-ring!), try running the car from a jar (CLEAN diesel) to see if it can handle it. Check for air in fuel and bleed system *completely if necessary, check your glow plugs! Many other things to blame but these came into my mind first. Deal with 1 issue at a time/first; I wouldn`t touch the valves yet!

About the motor oil consumption: ``1 qt in 500 miles (or less)`` is a LOT i think! Check for oil in your coolant (at expansion tank).

Lucky find, a nice Volvo, hopefully a survivor. You were constantly flushing your cylinder walls with that cr@p.
(((Just to make thinking about solving your hard-start/no-start problem much easier, let`s assume for now that 1, your injection pump does work perfectly and 2, there IS compression in your engine (although low compr itself shouldn`t cause you hard starting) AND 3, your glow plugs (or at least 4 of them) work correctly +the relay (doublecheck YOUR manual-toggle-glow setup)...
then...
-especially IF you have/had *any diesel fuel leak/leaks anywhere-, I`d say you have air introduced into the fuel system... so now you have to get clean fuel into the system, a brand new (good quality) filter, maybe a hand-pump (or electric fuel pump) prior* the filter and bleed the whole thing as a start. Get a strong battery too. While bleeding and cranking a lot, you can/should disconnect the glow plugs just to be on the safe side. You`ll only need them later when clean fuel does get everywhere where it needs to get. You can use diesel purge Lubro Molly instead of diesel fuel just to boost things up a bit. Watch out with dirty fuel, also, do not let anything get into the fuel supply. )))
You are very lucky, many Volvo Dieselers live around you!! Professional help is coming very soon! I hope you don`t mind that I just shared my `first opinion` on your problem.
PS. Check again those home-made Mercedes-to-Volvo injector lines.
PS2. Did you ever take out injectors? (sensitive parts, proper installation needed there; that can be another source of your dieseling troubles)
PS3. If someone PRO from here the d24t forum could check the timing...
PS4. It`s scary (even to talk about it) but you can check your belts. The timing belt in the front is under a cover. Inspect it. It should not be off or extremely loose. The rear belt at the firewall should NOT be too tight and should have no teeth missing. Confirm that.

Last edited by RedArrow; 11-03-2013 at 07:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-03-2013, 10:06 PM
happycamper happycamper is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Corvallis, OR
Vehicle: 1984 244 D24
Posts: 20
Default

Hey Mr Arrow thank you for all the prompt advice! Do I really need to go thru the trouble of bleeding the fuel system again? Well actually think i did that anyways but been parked a couple months now. I put a new napa filter on it when I got it and the one I replaced looked very clean inside. Put about 5k miles on it I think the filter should be pretty darn clean still. I know when I was last trying to start I cracked every line again to make sure there was good fuel pressure to each injector.

So I'm not thinking air in lines or filter or pump...

Never pulled any injectors I have never done this before but am not afraid to either... any advice on how to test these?

Front timing belt looks like it is due for replacement but not loose but looks a lot softer on the edges than the rear one. Do I need a special tool to replace this myself?

The engine seemed to be producing a lot of carbon deposits, soot, black shit on the intake side for some reason like when I put new air filter in it when I first started driving (before using ether) the old filter was black on engine side...?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-03-2013, 10:55 PM
ngoma ngoma is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,351
Default

Welcome to D24T.com.

Starting these engines requires:

1. Good cranking speed-- strong battery/starter.
2. Good compression.
3. Good GPs, all 6.
4. Good fuel pressure, no air.

Are you sure the GPs are getting energized during your starting attempts? If the ether hits hot GPs then you got problems (cracked rings, etc.) but if the GPs are not getting juice then it might not turn out to be so catastrophic. But try to stop using the ether.

Trying to think of what might be causing the starting degradation. Did it slowly degrade or was it like all of a sudden? You said a month but that was not enough detail. Timing should not have changed by itself. GPs you can easily visually check for sound wiring, and check for sufficient voltage (11VDC) at the GP bussbar.

Low compression itself obviously can impair starting ability. Your "considerable blow-by and he burned a quart of oil every 500 miles or less" could indicate worn oil control rings, and possibly worn compression rings/cylinder wear. You could check compression after checking valve clearances, but I haven't seen where these engines need all that much valve adjustments.

Leaky IP shaft seal can cause difficult or impossible starting by allowing air to enter the IP. It won't always signal a failure by leaking fuel out, so the way to check is to splice a temporary clear fuel hose at the IP out (fuel return) to verify no air bubbles. Wouldn't hurt to verify no bubbles at the IP fuel in port, the fuel line at the IP in port should be (somewhat) clear.

Did the PO have records of timing belt replacement? If not, don't gamble; replace it. Interference engine! Requires specialty tools and knowledge.

Where were the orig. injector lines leaking? Monitor your "new" ones closely; they don't like (re-) bending or vibration (that's the reason for the clamps), and are subject to failure after trauma. The engine also doesn't like them to be different lengths.
__________________
1985 744 gle d24t
1985 745 gle d24t
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-04-2013, 02:44 AM
745 TurboGreasel 745 TurboGreasel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Freedom CA
Vehicle: 85 745, 84Suburban 96Ram
Posts: 509
Default

I have used a ton of ether, but I'm trying to recover.
Really the only thing so far was a backfire once blew up my air filter housing. Cracked it so bad I had to get another one.
2 things, 1 as mentioned, ether + glow = bang
2 most people use way too much. if it knocks and kicks back, you used 2+ times more than you need.
Our IDI Ford dump ha started on ether for 6 years or so. While cranking, I spray ONE PUFF across not into the intake tube.

Fuel filter life is a big ? if you don't know what the POs burned for fuel. I have only see one or two that wold clog in less than 30 miles.

My first step wold be to swap the fuel lines coming off the fender with transparent plastic tube from the hardware store. Then you can be sure fuel is flowing, and see if supply, return. or both have air.
Then I'd verify the shutoff solenoid gets power, then I'd go with an external fuel supply.

Fast test on the glow plugs- take a jumper cable from battery + to the buss bar. if it doesn't spark, all 6 are toast. You can undo the little U wire under the vacuum pump to test in sets of 3.

If you've got a stick, pull starting is always an option, though I did rip my front tow hook in half with a Dodge. better to drag in gear and ease into it..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-04-2013, 06:46 AM
happycamper happycamper is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Corvallis, OR
Vehicle: 1984 244 D24
Posts: 20
Default

Once again all 6 glow plugs are brand new (less than 3k miles) and they are getting voltage for sure. Have toggle on dash that activates relay which is audible, and have tested the bus bar for voltage.

I like the clear fuel line idea... yeah fuel solenoid is getting voltage and presumably working correctly due to fuel pressure at all cylinders, correct? Still dont know anything about injectors themselves tho...

Again its been a couple months since trying to start... today i'll get him in the garage and give another go before looking at valves. I'm really leaning towards rings unfortunately but trying to eliminate all other possibilities first.

I do remember getting some ignition in at least a couple cylinders when trying to start on ether before... Just wouldnt catch only a little noise per revolution...If I can figure my crappy camera out might make a video for you guys (stepped on the iphone, Doh!) And thanks everyone this is awesome to have some support while wading into the unknown here!!!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-04-2013, 09:53 AM
ngoma ngoma is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by happycamper View Post
Once again all 6 glow plugs are brand new (less than 3k miles)
Well OK but is that (less than 3k miles) subject to ether? Not saying yours are toast but ether has been known to blast the GPs pretty good.

If you are getting spurts of fuel out of the injector line ends during cranking then we can say your fuel cutoff solenoid is working.

Next test is clear fuel line at the IP in/outs.
__________________
1985 744 gle d24t
1985 745 gle d24t
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-04-2013, 10:09 AM
happycamper happycamper is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Corvallis, OR
Vehicle: 1984 244 D24
Posts: 20
Default

Yes glow plugs were getting ether daily for at least a month... didn't realize it could fry them that quick!!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-04-2013, 12:49 PM
745 TurboGreasel 745 TurboGreasel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Freedom CA
Vehicle: 85 745, 84Suburban 96Ram
Posts: 509
Default

very much so. that's why I suggest testing load from that rather than their supply.

When I start my bench engine, I hold a jumper to the glow wire and count to 12, drop that and hit the starter. It fires right up. No need for fancy electronics.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-04-2013, 05:08 PM
v8volvo v8volvo is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montana, USA
Vehicle: '86 745, '83 764
Posts: 1,614
Default

You can also get an idea of plugs' condition testing with an ohmmeter or test light. Good plug will have relatively low resistance to ground, dead plug will be open. Usually this is an accurate test although not always, however, gives you some idea at least. Only trouble is that you have to detach the bus bar from all 6 plugs in order to test accurately, with them all hooked up this test only tells you whether or not they are *all* dead.

Or, if you have access to an ammeter with fairly high current capacity, you can check current thru the supply wire from the GP relay and get a pretty close idea of how many plugs are working and how many are dead (though you won't know which ones are which). Each plug will draw about 12 amps after a couple seconds. Fully functioning system should give you 72 amps, getting 48 amps means only 4 are live, 24 amps means 2, etc, etc. A little inductive meter that you hold next to the cable (e.g. the type sold for checking alternator charging current or starter draw) works reasonably well for this.

I pulled some plugs out of a 6.9L Ford once that was getting ether every morning. The tips had exploded. Pretty violent event when that stuff goes off and if the plugs are hot at the time, it's not good. A last idea would be to pull out a few of the easily accessible plugs on your motor (cyls 1-4). Appearance of what comes out of there might give you some clues as to what's keeping it from lighting off.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.