IP Help
 

Hello everyone. I have an issue and I need a little help. I have a truck with a D24T in it that I have been having hell trying to get running correctly. It was pretty slow and under powered, so I decided to do something about it. I did head Studs, “super pump”, injectors (higher pop psi), IC, and turbo.

As I said, I have been having a hell of a time getting it to run properly. I figured that, since the only parts I put on it that were not new were the injectors and the IP, I would take them out and have them gone through and rebuilt. The injectors came back just fine, but not so much luck with the IP.

The IP was mostly ok. They found that it was fueling at about 29% more than needed, and the timing was off. They reset everything back to the top of spec. When I asked what I should be able to expect from those settings, they said 89 HP!!! Does this sound right?

I have attached a photo of the numbers on the pump, in case that is needed.

Thanks,
Phil

What does "super pump" mean?

And what HP measurement are they using? Greenbook shows 106 HP SAE, 108 HP DIN for US/Canada spec, 109 HP DIN others for D24T stock, with standard (not "super pump") IP and standard injectors. Again, that is for D24T, not D24TIC.

In addition to the questions above, here is another:

When you say "getting it to run properly" what are the problems are you running into? Is the issue that it isn't making the power that it should with the upgrades you have?

Or are you referring to problems like hard starting, excess smoke, rough running, etc?

A little more specific detail about what the concerns are will help pinpoint what's going wrong.

Also, what injection pump timing settings have you tried so far and with what results?

IP help
 

The “super pump” (http://d24t.com/showthread.php?t=1646) has 12mm elements (sorry, I am still learning about these components)

The getting it to run correctly does mean that it doesn’t have the power it should with the mods I have done. It was blowing TONS of black smoke. Also, on one trip, after a long grade, she started slowly losing power while increasing the black smoke. When this happened, I was unable to build any boost. It would go up to about 4psi and then it just started decreasing and going negative...

She starts right up, no problem. I did have an issue starting, but I found an air leak at the input banjo fitting and at the filter outlet. Once that was fixed, it started immediately.

I set the pump to the stock setting, as recommended by the pump supplier, and only adjusted it a few degrees either way while experimenting.

Basically, I was having too much smoke, too high EGT’s, too low boost (Target was 25 and most often it would only hit 15), and it seemed to not have the power it should. Since the pump and injectors were the only used parts I used, I decided to pull the pump and injectors and have them rebuilt at the Bosch guys locally. I was told that this pump is from a Penta and will only put out 89 hp. I don’t know if that is for the stock internals, or...

Phil

Those issues sound to me like you have a large restriction of airflow causing the problems. The black smoke / high EGT combined with lack of power suggest the fuel system may be just fine but there may be a serious inlet air restriction or exhaust restriction. The progressive falling boost pressure under heavy load and then eventual vacuum in the intake particularly sounds like a major inlet air restriction.

Can you give some more details/photos of what the intake and exhaust setup on your truck is? Do you still have the original Pinz snorkel setup installed for the air inlet? What kind of air filter and where?

What kind of turbo? What kind of intercooler and plumbing? CFM rating of the intercooler? Can you measure what the pressure drop is from the turbo outlet to the intake manifold under heavy load and high RPM? (Use multiple boost/vacuum gauges to measure this) How much vacuum exists at the turbo compressor inlet under full load/high RPM?

Any changes to the exhaust from stock, or damage like a crushed pipe or plugged muffler? Do you have the equipment to measure the turbine drive pressure (exhaust manifold pressure pre-turbo) and the backpressure after the turbo?

The inlet flows through 3” tube and is pretty short and solid, except for the joints, which are of high quality material. The air/water IC is about 6” from the turbo and about 12” travel from the outlet to the intake. Those are 2.5” and all hard tube, less the connections, which are high quality. I did vacuum test the whole intake/exhaust. The exhaust has a 3” down-pipe, only. I have not finished the exhaust beyond that in case anything changes. The turbo is a new Garrett G25-550 and will support 250-550 hp, and the IC will support up to 650 hp.

Sounds like you have a good setup with plenty of flow, at least on paper. But clearly something is not working out correctly in the real world, either a defect in one of the parts, or some pieces of the system not playing well together, or there is a foreign object creating an obstacle somewhere.

With the 3" open exhaust I think you can rule out a restriction downstream of the turbo. How is the wastegate set up, how did you set spring tension, and what kind of wastegate control does it have? Is there an MBC inline in the boost signal line or did you set desired boost pressure just by adjusting the preload on the wastegate spring?

What kind of intake manifold do you have? D24 NA? If it's the stock D24T/D24TIC intake, did you shim or seal up or eliminate the over-pressure bypass valve somehow? If it is still there, any chance that it is getting pushed open and leaking back to the turbo inlet?

Have you reinstalled the pump and injectors back on the engine since getting them back from being checked over? If so was there any change from how it was before? A fuel system problem like a pump with sticking dynamic advance could still be part of the issue as far as EGT and smoke are concerned, although it wouldn't explain your intake charge pressure dropping below zero. Nevertheless, now that you know the pump and injectors are set to spec it would be valuable to see if that makes any difference. Though if they set them up for the specs on the new pump's body it might still be wrong for this engine. It might have been better to give them the numbers off the original Pinzgauer 10mm pump and ask them to try to match the fueling and advance curves of the new larger pump as close as possible to those.

It sounds like the symptoms you saw were intermittent, like it could sometimes build boost and make some power but other times it couldn't generate any pressure at all. Is that correct? Was there any pattern to the symptoms, like ambient weather temp, etc, that could predictably make the problems worse or better?

I'm not sure, but did the IP had a right setup to the engine with the gauge/meter? I remember you can set the pump 180° wrong and it would run, but baaaadly.
I had a few years also a bad setting after I replaced the D24TIC engine and inserted the refurbished pump without having the meter and it ran also bad. Rough run, no power and high smoking.
But in this case it was misconfigured just a few degrees...

Check out the correct setup of the IP!

Greetings,
Bernd

IP
 

Thanks for the replies, and sorry for the delay! I have a tendency to check out for a while.

I have not reinstalled the pump yet. I have a call in trying to find a part number for the 12mm head. Anyone have a number for such a pump?

I have been careful to make sure to set TDC with the notch on the pulley. I will be sure to pay extra attention to the pump settings when I do put it back together. I did wonder if part of the problem could have been that the timing got off somehow. It should be a bit easier having just been rebuilt.

As for the manifold, I am using the original D24T intake. I welded the original inlet closed, cut off the over-pressure valve and then opened the hole to accept a 2.5” piece of tube and welded that on for the new inlet. I did check that whole setup for any leaks and there were none. I have a Turbonetics Boost Controller for setting the WG pressure.

Phil

IP help
 

Anyone have any info that would help me get this pump set to a decent HP? A part number for a pump that puts out higher than 150 HP? Anyone...?