2,8?
I have looked at a movie on google and i heard a man said he had drilled the engine. Someone her who has tried it? It make sense if you use 1,9 pistons.
http://www.viddler.com/explore/Diesel/videos/13/ |
Well, I dont know the language they are speaking, but you couldn't use 1.9 TDI pistons, and I didn't know of a 1.9 IDI engine. I would also be suprised that there is enough material in the block to bore it oversize enough to get 2.8 liters. The max overbore pistion thats sold is 1mm, which ends up increasing the size to about 2.5 liter.
Jason |
I'm skeptical too... there was a VW 1.9 IDI engine made, not sold in US but available in Canada. However, it had a taller block than the 1.5/1.6 family, and a longer stroke as a result. There was never a D24 made with a taller block, so I don't know how you'd make a 1.9 piston work. Sounds iffy.
Looks cool, wish someone knew what they were saying... |
I know what they are saying and it is in a very funny dialect also I think the guy had a few drinks before making the video:D:D , Anyway he claims 260 hp and that is a little bit to much I think... normal output with the mods he claims is about 200... he sais bigger pump head bigger turbo bigger nozzles etc... but it looks very nicely done!
He is running on cooking oil... |
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I dont now thats why i asking. I have 94 1,9 td with mechanical pump. I have heard about a 2,8 in bigger vw lt. i understand what he says in the movie and he says 2,8. But i think hes turbo is little to get 260 horsepower.
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Guess it would depend on the pin height of the piston, but still you have the problem of the material needed to cut the block that big.
Stock bore is 76.5mm I did some research and found the 1.9 IDI AAZ engine is 79.5mm bore x 95.5mm stroke. Even if the piston did have the correct pin height, the stock 86.4mm stroke with a 79.5mm bore would get you 2573cc engine, so not quite 2.6 liters. You would be talking a 3mm overbore! Thats .117" cut into the block! Thats alot of material.. For argument sake, the math is cylinder dispacement equals: bore x bore x stroke (in mm) x .0031416 / 4 Multiply that result by 6 cylinders and you have the engine size is cc. 79.5 x 79.5 x 86.4 x .0031416 = 1715.53225 answer / 4 = 428.88306 428.88306 x 6 = 2573.29838cc Jason |
ok is it possible to stroke the engine?
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The block would have to be taller, as George said. The 1.9 was a different block compaired to the 1.6 family, which is what our engine is based on. The stroke difference is almost 10mm! I think he had a few extra drinks that day!
Jason |
If you would get hold of shorter rods it would maybe in theory be possible to stroke it...
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Where is the crank comming from?
Jason |
You'd also probably be dealing with custom pistons that place the wristpin further up, closer to the rings and with a shorter skirt.... on an IDI diesel with 23:1 compression, I would be concerned about making those kinds of changes.
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This is a little off topic... but do you know anything about the VW 1E 2.4L petrol straight six used in LT vans? I have heard they made one based on a D24 block but with a gas engine head and pistons, same displacement and everything. It would be a neat project to get a Volvo with a blown up D24, then swap one of these gasser straight sixes in and build it up for big power. Since its a gas engine in a diesel block it would probably never wear out in a million miles... and the turbo manifold off a D24T would probably bolt right up, so adding a turbo would be easy. They sound smooth...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of_1wJDP6dA |
Some more info on the build project it is in swedish but I donīt have the energy to translate it just now....
He might not be talking shit after all because look at the work he has done it looks really neat and proffessional. http://www.dieselmaffian.com/subpage2.html Apparently it is not used in traffic yet since he hasnīt fixed a speedo yet... One reason for doing such a mod is that all cars in sweden over 30 years of age are liberated from tax.... |
On a another forum was it one that said audi/vw had 6,1-6,3mm thick walls in the sylinders so he said it could work.
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I would still like to know where the stroker crank comming from? Also, when you stroke an engine you normally have to use longer rods. You may be able to get away with longer stroke up to a certain point, but the rod angle is going to get too steep. Besides that, the angle on a diesel engine is even more important than it is on a gasser, thanks to the super high compression and long stroke.
Jason |
i ment that the walls was so thick that they could get a bigger bore.
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I think its fun that someone likes d24 this much, that he puts so much money in it.
Its keeping the D24 engine alive!! For a while ago i called someone here in sweden that had a D24 machined to 2.8 litre, he claimed it was 1,9 pistons in it, brand new cylinder head, the best version with hydraulics lifters. The engine was not started, and he wanted 10 000SEK, very cheap. Only the cylinder head with cam, lifters and valves costs about 11 000sek Maybe sometime in the future, i will build me a engine, if i come over brand new crank and cylinder head, im searching like a maniac. H- profile RODS can be bought from Sten parner in sweden, wich pistons i will use im unsure about, but not original, those are crap, you know what i mean. As a turbo I would prefer a mitsubishi 19t with 3inch exhausthouse, in my eys this is one of the best turbos in the world, mitsubishi original turbos are outstanding when it comes to power and realibty, love it! I think the manifold is good. But i dont understand the injection pump to well, so i would send it to DIESELMEKEN here in sweden. When it comes to the block i would O-ring it and use volvos original steel gasket 1.6mm made by elring, this is the best. But the dream engine is 1HD-FT, the biggest 6cyl turbodiesel engine made for a car, not a truck. Regards Martin friman |
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As I posted though, a 1.9 piston wouldn't get you to a 2.8 liter... It would be just under a 2.6. There isn't enough deck height to accomidate a longer stroke, so I don't see this as a possibility. Jason |
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Its bigger!
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I was just saying that whoever said they built a D24 that was a 2.8 liter with 1.9 pistons wasn't correct...
Jason |
Now i know something you guys dont know :) Its correct that the engine is 2.8 litre, its original piston in it, 75,5mm or is it 76,5mm? The secret is the crank, its a very rare original crank thats was used only in cars made 1991-1992 in belgium. Dont know if it was made by vw or volvo. I want one of those cranks!!
The guy in the movie bought the engine from a scrap yard in Österrike, with broken timing belt. Dont know anything more, so dont ask me for further question, i know it seems like like a lie, because i never heard or seen one of these cranks, but the guy seems very honest. Regards Martin Friman |
I would have to see it to believe it. With the original bore of 76.5mm, you would you would have to stroke it WAY out to get 2.8 liters. There isn't enough block deck height to accomidate that.
Jason |
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Could you try searching around for additional information on this mystery crank? Was the crank used in the VW LT vehicles? I recall there being mention of a 2,8L diesel engine in those. I had always thought it was not a D24 ... but maybe it was? Naturally a link to a page on the web would be very beneficial on this part, thanks. |
I have heard about that some MAN heavy light truck has a 3,5 with the same design on the outside and have 120-130 horsepower without turbo and 160 with? That had been a machine in the volvo!
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I have new info about the crank, it was a company in germany that made those for the LT45/55 series, to increase torque and some power. |
there is an crankshaft from VW lt 45 or 55 that stokes the engine to 2.8 but they are very rare and weak. and are impossible to find i sweden were i live because i think they were only sold i germany and in few numbers
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How do you acomidate the extra stroke and higher deck height? Super thick gasket?
Jason |
i didnt mean crankshaft i ment block with same stroke but bigger pistons
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Ok so its a diesel truck block thats the same as the D24T but with much bigger cylinder bore to make it 2.8... What are you saying was week then the block, or the crank. Couldn't you use the D24T crankshaft then?
Jason |
i have really no idea and i dint even know if it's true but i have heard that there is an block from Vw LT55 on 2.8liters
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D24 series, not even in the LT trucks. Its a very rare crank that makes it possible to reach 2,76litre, and thats with original bore and piston, not oversized stuff. I understand that the block height isnt enough, so probably there is shorter rods made to that crank. As i wrote earlier the crank was made by some aftermarket firm in germany to stroke D24 in the Lt series, there was Lt trucks with max weight of 5600kg=5,6ton so i understand that the engine had to work hard. Regards Martin |
I would be suprised that they would go with a shorter rod. You can only go so short before you will have issues with too steep of a rod angle. I would still like to see it. I would be if the same block and bore is used, there is a thicker head gasket that goes with it. The stroke to go from 2.4 to 2.76 would have to be increase quite a bit with only a 76mm bore. I did the math, and to get 2.76 Liters you would need a 100mm stroke which would come out to 2757cc or 2.76. 14mm increase in stroke is HUGE! Thats over a half inch! Still sounds iffy to me.
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Hi all. Long time lurker, first time poster.
The rod length to stroke ratio of the stock D24 (and T) is only 1.57 to 1. The con rod length is only 136mm (5.36"). These numbers are already about as low as you would want them. When VW created the 1.9 diesel they bumped those numbers up to 1.80 to 1 and 172mm (6.78") respectively. They raised the deck height to achieve this and the stroke still didn't reach 100mm! (It only reached 95.5mm). They chose to increase the bore a bit more (to 79.5mm from 76.5mm) rather than making the stroke any longer than that already too long 95.5mm. The point is that unless there is a 6 cylinder version of the 1.9 (which would be a 2.85L), this mystery engine didn't happen. Too bad too because that would be a sweet engine. http://books.google.com/books?id=bE1...age&q=&f=false http://www.not2fast.com/vw/stuff/vw_engines.shtml Regards, Eric |
Testing my sig.
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My Swedish is not good but I believe I heard him say it was 2.4 liter bored out to 2.8 liter, has 260 HP, 500 kN torque. That is a lot of torque! I think he said that he has some parts from an Iveco truck in his description.
It sounds pretty nice and isn't that an old 142 ? Steve |
I did the math and boring the block out to get a 2.8 isn't possible, there isn't enough material. I also agree with what Eric said, though I didn't know what the rod length was untill he posted it. In the VW engines I build, we don't go any more than 82mm stroke with the stock 5.35 length rods (same in a air cooled vw as a D24... interesting). Anything above that and the rod angle is too steep and you get excessive side loading on the piston. I have heard of people building a 84mm stroke with the stock rod, but the rod almost hits the piston skirt. I guess the 86 stroke in the d24 works because of the shorter piston skirt.
Jason |
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