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D24 na problematic everything
Hello all!
May be you can help me. I have read almost a hundred threads, but this is my first writing :) I have a Volvo 240 with D24 non turbo. Manual + OD. I will list problems here because there is alot :) Tried sorting out at bosch mechanic but nothing. - No power but SERIOUSLY (top speed ON FLAT 110kph (thats 68mph), unable to climb hills literally, there is a steep hill on highway near me which i have to take in 2nd gear doing ~35kph! (~20mph)) Generally, the car cannot be driven continually over 85kph (52mph) - A lot of smoke at all times except when warm idle (black, gray, blue, white... all of it depends on situation. Revving at neutral - black. Flatout on highway - white. Towing - all combined :D ) - All 6 injectors changed and pump reset by bosch mechanic (all 6 injectors were so bad they were literally like garden hoses), after that the TERRIBLE OVERHEATING stayed and the MPG dropped A LOT. Since then i have turned down the fuel screw myself and the consumption is better (but not as good as it used to be) and the overheating is gone completely, but the car does jump/stutter/cough when cold accelerating and the engine runs smoother when warm. - Uneven power (suddenly at around 2.3k rpm it gains some power which dissapears later) I have a rev counter attached to alternator. Almost like a small turbo. - NO cold start device installed. The lever is just in relaxed position, its not tied or anything. (no cold winters here really (a bit below freezing), and when below freezing i just start it with gas pedal pressed a bit, i also have manual glow plug activation) - Low oil pressure (unrelated but annoying) (long time to build, 1bar when warm) - Bad and uneven compression (driving 200k km with terrible injectors probably didn't help :) ) Also, the valves have never been touched, the mechanics sware they are hydro lifters and i must agree that there is no ticking, but we will know soon when i change the cover gasket) I guess i should be timing the pump. Also, the guys swear they 1) set the pump at the bench correctly, 2) timed the pump with dial indicator (the first bit i believe, but the second not so much :) ) there are no better ones here so no luck Is it ok to have no CS device and to pull the lever with something from outside if it gets really cold? Also, how is this all happening. What can i do to sort this engine out the way it should be atleast at this age. It wasn't like this when it was installed bit it quickly became (i was a kid) Ive heard stores from other owners how this engine in this car does 80-90kph in 4th gear on the same hill i go 35kph. I could go faster, but not even in 3dr gear. Also ive driven diesel mercedes benz 190D 2.5 and its like a race car compared to this engine. BTW this car was driven by my father for 24years and now by me and will be kept at all costs :) |
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Hi!
Welcome to the forum! Got popcorns? here`s a long answer IDk where to start my reply but I also have a few questions... It is very nice that you want to save the car that your father was driving. I wish I could do that too... even better, to rebuild it together with him. about injectors... What do you mean by saying that the injectors were changed? Did you install new injectors from another car or did you rebuild your injectors that are in the car now? Probably you sent your set of injectors to someone to rebuild them. Would be importat to know what kind of nozzles they used inside those injectors and also important how (if) they set them right. For now, that`s it about the injectors. Try to verify with the rebuilder and ask what they did and how. Did they know at the time of rebuild that it will go into a specific car a dirsel volvo. Some rebuilders just throw in new nozzles, sometimes cheap bad quality nozzles, and often they dont even test the injectors for spray pattern, opening pressures, etc. Definitely verify who did the rebuild and how. A very nice and professional injector job isnt even that easy but once you have a great set properly set, you can do 75000miles on them, some say maybe 100k. About the lack of power... Your car was very slow even brand new!! even in Europe LOL but those days that was the style of driving and nobody was bothered by it. They arent race cars for sure but they have very nice torque and it comes at low rpms too which is great. With the right owner, they ran 200-500-700 thousand kilometers easily with minor refurb jobs. If you think that your car has no real power, which you already explained, try to think it through and try to find why. It would be great if you had tools the proper factory tools that are somewhat necessary to do the timing , at least. You could use some of what the VW cars used and put together your own kit. I would start with rechecking the timing bc sounds like you have multiple sign of a misadjusted engine, a tired one, or both. I would put my bets on the first. What you are explaining is serious lack of power. My dad had the same car in 1990 and it was a 1984 nonturbo d24 244 car and we still have it, but that car cruised at 135km/hr at any time and all day without no overheat or loss of power. Dont ask me about the 0-60 but it did have proper power and never ever let us down. It would climb ANY hill, slowly maybe but would pull up a trailer uphill with another d24 car on it. And it would pull it all day, i have proof bc I know someone who kept transporting cars for years and he used a nonturbo d24 245 to pull them home from Germany on a 2-axle trailer! He often brought the w123 MB cars which were really wanted that time in Hungary. Anyway. So. Your car need to claim back its power. Recheck and set timing. Dont worry about compression for now. even with low compression and a worn tired engine, you should have ample amount of power to climb hills and able to feel that car driving stable as it always should. You really need to know how it got timed and by who and verify again IF they know about these cars at all. Maybe they timed it totally wrong...sounds like it. My other question. Do you notice coolant loss? Not just a leak what I mean but dont you have coolant `disappearing` time to time? If yes, you gotta start with figuring out what`s wrong. Try to look and see if you have (exhaust gas) bubbles in your expansion tank surfacing with the coolant (warm engine or after longer driving with the thermostat already `opened`. When my dad had a Volga wagon, we would go fishing for years with it with a broken headgasket and the only sign was that it would overheat on hot days and also it never could climb even slopes not just hills. But it ran well on flat ground and grandpa style driving...and we never got it fixed actually. Dont stress about your HG going bad now... It isnt the case but no one really knows. You gotta go through other important details and try to set the car up properly. Next topic: You probably need a fuel filter if your tank is usually kept lower than full esp if it didnt run or was parked for a few years. If you have bad fuel or rust in the tank, those particle will always reappear and screw you at the filter over and over again. You could actually install a cheap inline filter between where the fuel comes in, before the factory filter; if you suspect that your fuel is /was always contaminated. Might be the case. Another ape-man method but it is a good test: To close out injection pump being `weak` and to close out issues of contaminated fuel that is coming in from the bad fuel in tank etc etc; you can always find a 15-20liter container and place it in front of the passenger seat inside and `wire up` some fuel hoses from right there and run the car from that contained fuel and see IF you can experience some evolution about how it runs. Many d24 people used that enourmous size washer fluid tank, modded to accept fuel and ran around town like that. Funny at the gas station though. But some pumps were too leaky to suck all the way from the rear main fuel tank and this solved their problem. Until you get the main tank removed and cleaned, it always worked. Check fuel lines below the body all the way from the tank to the engine. I remember doing offroad fishing hunting and we had some troubles with air intrusion at the underbody a few times. Not much air is needed to make things complicated. Also keep your engine as clean as possible to be able to spot just about anything. An oily leaky dirty mess is not your best friend for a successful diagnosys!!! IDK how your car looks so I`m just saying, dont take it to your heart. The fuel line between the filter and the inj pump should be transparent/clear, so you could see fuel going thru WITHOUT any bubbles of air. Make sure that the almost invisible clamps are NOT letting air in. Often they dont at idle but they do when driving longer trips and fuel and tubing gets hot. IDK where you are at so I am trying to mention multiple things to look for as a first plan. To start somewhere... My other question. Is your injection pump visibly wet anywhere and does it leak anywhere? if you have air intrusion just about anywhere between the fuel tank and the motor, it may not run perfectly and it can even run very poorly. Here it would be nice to know IF it idles fine all the time, If it runs always fine all the time, etc. Power loss is one thing but does it stall does it cough does it do weird stuff as you drive it? You should be able to wake that car up if the motor is healthy so dont give up. There`s a lot for you to check but the forum can also help you all the time. Take videos if you notice anything worth mentioning so we could see it, hear it. Black smoke usually means too much fuel, white smoke definitely is not good unless it is the very first 20-30seconds at the coldstart. White smoke to me indicates bad injectors. If the white smoke is smoke, that`s better than having water vapor as white smoke. Blue smoke would mostly be issues with the piston rings being worn etc. To me it sounds like someone turned the fuel up to compensate for poor running. There are other ways to adjust the fuel for the motor so you need to sort this out step by step. About a possible head failure again: Check your oil for murky milky substance. if water is present inside, you will immediately see at/in the valve cover. Also check AND smell your coolant at the reservoir and see if you can notice something. MY BEST ADVICE IS THAT YOU SHOULD FIND SOMEONE WHO HAS OR HAD THE SAME CAR AND TALK WITH HIM OR MEET UP FOR SOME TINKERING. Forget the mechanics bc most of them cant and wont deal with such cars. And even more of them dont even know how to. The ones who had proper training on these specific engines or atleast worked at their oldschool brick car dealerships in the early 80s, are now 60-120y old lol. |
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Do you have the d24 engine reconditioning Greenbook book/owners manual? Highly suggested.
About you believing or not THEIR pump repair story: Well, solving injection pump trouble on a test- bench is definitely harder than setting timing in-car so probably they did both. What did they do? Did they reseal the entire pump then same people installed it on your car? About smoke again. A lot of smoke all times, as you said...IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. Weak car, old car, diesel, yes yes yes, but that kind of smoking is not allowed. Your engine is misadjusted or you have bad injectors or they arent perfect. Gotta check timing at the rear belt (fuel timing) Valve adjustment. You MUST, again, MUST check and adjust the valves. Must And it takes less than an hour even for the beginner vw dieseler. Please do adjust the valve ASAP. You need to have a chart for yourself to be able to write down values and make a plan on how to swap or switch the shims. It is super easy you can pm me or whatever I will explain or you read the Greenbook. Valve adj is an absolute must and it is suggested at every 12k but definitely must at every 20-30k because as they wear the gaps get tighter and that is NOT good for you r internals. The intake valve gap must be tigggghhhhht by now. God, when was it even done last time? It isnt causing your issue btw but please adjust the valves. There is no damn lifters in the d24 early 200 nonturbo engines so whoever said that to you please turn away and run and never go back to them for any*advice on your d24. Nonturbo d24 needs to have valves adjusted, period! The later 700 and 900 models do have hydr lifters but that`s your next d24 car not this one:) Euro TIC motors are REALLY nice and they dont have the stupid waterpump timingbelt tensioner system LOL. also to express something equally important as the regular tb service: it is important to have zero overheat stories whatsoever. these engine usually died due to overheating because of either misadjusted or neglected or misunderstood. If you experience the slightest overheating, you gotta stop driving the car. Not for a break but for until you redo the entire cooling system and have it safe again. No overheating is `allowed` in these or you may pay the highest price, the life of your rare survivor car. If overheat happens, catastrophicv engine damage is almost inevitable so please do your thing and check for leak before and after trips and perhaps at every time you use the car. why not? No coolant leaks are accepted and if you lose coolant, it takes not much time for the head to warp beyond specs then what? Big job and too much money too. Overheating you kept having earlier, could you describe what it was and how when it was happening? Overheating kills these engines but it is so easy to avoid if the system is kept neatly in order. Hoses, radiator, proper 80 or 87C thermostat, etc. I should have said in the beginning of this long answer: you must check your timing and start there. Add a new fuel filter now too. About the CS device, no worries.* and go from there, stay in touch here and document your troubles so we can see how you and the car are doing. There must be dieselers around you, try to meet up and sort things out there too. Best of luck and dont*give up, soon your car running great again.* |
Thank you!
And thank you for the long and quick answers! The car is actually a 245, and i have also other old cars (including a for spares same 245 diesel and a 244 b21). I dont visit any mechanics at all doing it myself, but this being a special job i decided to to so. Probably a mistake to make. I will answer all question one by one now for clarity (sorry i shortened your answers to meet the 10k character bottleneck) [B]Hi! It is very nice that you want to save the car that your father was driving. I wish I could do that too... even better, to rebuild it together with him. about injectors... What do you mean by saying that the injectors were changed? Did you install new injectors from another car or did you rebuild your injectors that are in the car now? Probably you sent your set of injectors to someone to rebuild them. Would be importat to know what kind of nozzles they used inside those injectors and also important how (if) they set them right. For now, that`s it about the injectors. Try to verify with the rebuilder and ask what they did and how. Did they know at the time of rebuild that it will go into a specific car a dirsel volvo. Some rebuilders just throw in new nozzles, sometimes cheap bad quality nozzles, and often they dont even test the injectors for spray pattern, opening pressures, etc. Definitely verify who did the rebuild and how. There were two guys - one an old bosch mechanic (almost 70yrs old) and other who just took the pump in and out. Here in serbia we have MANY golf mk1 and 2 diesels. So they bought new injector inserts for the mk2 golf and installed them in my injectors. They also say they tested them good. With the pump removed he resealed the pump and set the pump timing and quantity on the bosch table by the bosch charts (i didnt see that but i believe him tbh) That doesn't mean he didn't mess it up :) Then when he and his guy started to return the pump in the car, it was a 3 days long agony :D They managed to get the car running finally using a dial indicator FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THEIR LIFES. The thing is that there are many golf mk2 diesels here and that they do the timing by the ear on them apparently (heard that from another bosch service i then decided to avoid). About the lack of power... If you think that your car has no real power, which you already explained, try to think it through and try to find why. It would be great if you had tools the proper factory tools that are somewhat necessary to do the timing , at least. You could use some of what the VW cars used and put together your own kit. I would start with rechecking the timing bc sounds like you have multiple sign of a misadjusted engine, a tired one, or both. I would put my bets on the first. What you are explaining is serious lack of power. You really need to know how it got timed and by who and verify again IF they know about these cars at all. Maybe they timed it totally wrong...sounds like it. I dont mind the slow speed actually, i got used to it, sometimes its even fun. But this is too much when not city driving (this car does spend all its life as a city car) I will get/make the tools no problem. Would be good if the books included some dimensions for fabrication. Also, a million golf mk2 here, we even used to make them in Yugoslavia, so plenty to go around (that doesn't mean anyone fixes them properly unfortunately, as we can see on my example :) ) NO one knows ANYTHING about D24 and most people see it for the first time in their life when i pop the hood. Only the guy who changed the rear small belt a few years ago didn't screw anything up - do you think that he had to time the pump after that or he just put it in the same place? My other question. Do you notice coolant loss? Not just a leak what I mean but dont you have coolant `disappearing` time to time? If yes, you gotta start with figuring out what`s wrong. Try to look and see if you have (exhaust gas) bubbles in your expansion tank surfacing with the coolant (warm engine or after longer driving with the thermostat already `opened`. When my dad had a Volga wagon, we would go fishing for years with it with a broken headgasket and the only sign was that it would overheat on hot days and also it never could climb even slopes not just hills. But it ran well on flat ground and grandpa style driving...and we never got it fixed actually. Dont stress about your HG going bad now... It isnt the case but no one really knows. You gotta go through other important details and try to set the car up properly. Volgas are nice :) i cannot find one here unfortunately that is not overly expensive. And not a single gaz 21. I check the coolant once a week almost and there is only little consumption/loss. The colour is normal. There is no pulsing (although sometimes it is wet on overpressure valve, probs some trapped air). It smells of burning maybe a bit. It used to loose coolant a bit so dad to tap water for some time and it stopped. I check it so often because i loose enormous amounts of oil (most of it leaking through valve cover tho, will be sorted soon when i find it/make it) Next topic: You probably need a fuel filter if your tank is usually kept lower than full esp if it didnt run or was parked for a few years. If you have bad fuel or rust in the tank, those particle will always reappear and screw you at the filter over and over again. You could actually install a cheap inline filter between where the fuel comes in, before the factory filter; if you suspect that your fuel is /was always contaminated. Might be the case. The tank is sometimes max full, sometimes max low, depends :D But usually max low. It runs every dany for 24 years, i would worry to park it for more than a few days, it will break :D The filter is newish (20k km), i also have a new one waiting. Check fuel lines below the body all the way from the tank to the engine. I remember doing offroad fishing hunting and we had some troubles with air intrusion at the underbody a few times. Not much air is needed to make things complicated. Also keep your engine as clean as possible to be able to spot just about anything. An oily leaky dirty mess is not your best friend for a successful diagnosys!!! Great idea for the washer fluid to fuel tank conversion :) I dont have transparent lines, but will get them, i like the idea. Also am thinking of the primer thingy (that rubber thing you squeeze), we add that to cars here regulary. Its not dirty, but it does leak through the valvecover so its greasy. Good suggestion, i will change the lines anyways. My other question. Is your injection pump visibly wet anywhere and does it leak anywhere? if you have air intrusion just about anywhere between the fuel tank and the motor, it may not run perfectly and it can even run very poorly. Here it would be nice to know IF it idles fine all the time, If it runs always fine all the time, etc. Power loss is one thing but does it stall does it cough does it do weird stuff as you drive it? Its not wet anywhere. It idles nicely all the time (some of my friends joke that it is so quiet whispers, its a low compression joke). But it runs the same all the time, never changes at all. Always the same in all conditions. It does cough A LOT as i said (after i reduced the fuel on the fuel screw) when cold and trying to accelerate in 2nd gear (first 3-5min). Take videos if you notice anything worth mentioning so we could see it, hear it. Will do :) Black smoke usually means too much fuel, white smoke definitely is not good unless it is the very first 20-30seconds at the coldstart. White smoke to me indicates bad injectors. If the white smoke is smoke, that`s better than having water vapor as white smoke. Blue smoke would mostly be issues with the piston rings being worn etc. To me it sounds like someone turned the fuel up to compensate for poor running. There are other ways to adjust the fuel for the motor so you need to sort this out step by step. I know a lot about smoke :D Yes, the white smoke is injectors since it decreased a lot when i reduced fuel. Yes, they did crank up the fuel, it was overheating and using a lot of fuel - both of which stopped after i reduced fuel "by ear". But mpg is still worse/same than with garden hose injectors. About a possible head failure again: Check your oil for murky milky substance. if water is present inside, you will immediately see at/in the valve cover. Also check AND smell your coolant at the reservoir and see if you can notice something. No milky oil, no milky valves as far as can be seen from oilcap (the metal guard is removed, i dont know why and why). MY BEST ADVICE IS THAT YOU SHOULD FIND SOMEONE WHO HAS OR HAD THE SAME CAR AND TALK WITH HIM OR MEET UP FOR SOME TINKERING. these are rare here and those that existed were run until they stopped without much care since the mechanics say they are indestructible so people dont even change oil. Prob is that they are all setup wrong by now :D :D The guy whom i met who had it says like i wrote above and says my car is terribly slow. My spare volvo has a much healthier D24 engine but still smokes and is slow (although much less) because someone changed the small timing belt and did an awful job of course. Cannot test it much since i removed the brakes ! :D I hope we will get to the end of these accumulated problems :D |
Do you have the d24 engine reconditioning Greenbook book/owners manual? Highly suggested.
I have the greenbook service manuals in pdf and i can also share if anyone needs it. About you believing or not THEIR pump repair story: Well, solving injection pump trouble on a test- bench is definitely harder than setting timing in-car so probably they did both. What did they do? Did they reseal the entire pump then same people installed it on your car? I answered this in the post above. Basically, they are able to "routinely" set the pumps up for mk2 golf and such, but when it comes to installing they just slap them in and call it a day. Problem here is that people here think that these engines should have a top speed of 60mph etc anyways. My quote from above: "There were two guys - one an old bosch mechanic (almost 70yrs old) and other who just took the pump in and out. Here in serbia we have MANY golf mk1 and 2 diesels. So they bought new injector inserts for the mk2 golf and installed them in my injectors. They also say they tested them good. With the pump removed he resealed the pump and set the pump timing and quantity on the bosch table by the bosch charts (i didnt see that but i believe him tbh) That doesn't mean he didn't mess it up Then when he and his guy started to return the pump in the car, it was a 3 days long agony They managed to get the car running finally using a dial indicator FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THEIR LIFES. The thing is that there are many golf mk2 diesels here and that they do the timing by the ear on them apparently (heard that from another bosch service i then decided to avoid)." About smoke again. A lot of smoke all times, as you said...IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. Weak car, old car, diesel, yes yes yes, but that kind of smoking is not allowed. Your engine is misadjusted or you have bad injectors or they arent perfect. Gotta check timing at the rear belt (fuel timing) Valve adjustment. You MUST, again, MUST check and adjust the valves. Must And it takes less than an hour even for the beginner vw dieseler. Please do adjust the valve ASAP. You need to have a chart for yourself to be able to write down values and make a plan on how to swap or switch the shims. It is super easy you can pm me or whatever I will explain or you read the Greenbook. Valve adj is an absolute must and it is suggested at every 12k but definitely must at every 20-30k because as they wear the gaps get tighter and that is NOT good for you r internals. The intake valve gap must be tigggghhhhht by now. God, when was it even done last time? It isnt causing your issue btw but please adjust the valves. THANK YOU! I was saying this for years! But all mechanics sware to GOD that its hydrolifters. I just have to find shims here, that isnt very fun to make :) IT WAS NEVER DONE FOR AT LEAST 450k KM :eek: There is no damn lifters in the d24 early 200 nonturbo engines so whoever said that to you please turn away and run and never go back to them for any*advice on your d24. Nonturbo d24 needs to have valves adjusted, period! The later 700 and 900 models do have hydr lifters but that`s your next d24 car not this one:) Euro TIC motors are REALLY nice and they dont have the stupid waterpump timingbelt tensioner system LOL. They are cheap now, soon ;);) also to express something equally important as the regular tb service: it is important to have zero overheat stories whatsoever. these engine usually died due to overheating because of either misadjusted or neglected or misunderstood. If you experience the slightest overheating, you gotta stop driving the car. Not for a break but for until you redo the entire cooling system and have it safe again. No overheating is `allowed` in these or you may pay the highest price, the life of your rare survivor car. If overheat happens, catastrophicv engine damage is almost inevitable so please do your thing and check for leak before and after trips and perhaps at every time you use the car. why not? No coolant leaks are accepted and if you lose coolant, it takes not much time for the head to warp beyond specs then what? Big job and too much money too. Overheating you kept having earlier, could you describe what it was and how when it was happening? Overheating kills these engines but it is so easy to avoid if the system is kept neatly in order. Hoses, radiator, proper 80 or 87C thermostat, etc. Before i changed the injectors and after reduced the fuel screw it used to get overheat all the time. Now it stopped and is cool like a swimming pool. You want to go uphill? Overheat. You want to go 90kph instead of 80kph? overheat. You want to drive "hard" as in accelerate a bit less slow? Overheat. I have another gauge cluster for that + i regularly check with IR gun + i have a lot of oil on intake from valve cover (will be changed soon) so it starts to smell :) so i monitor it carefully. It never overheated terribly tho! We all kept an eye on it. It got to almost red a few times but that was 10 yrs ago. We are careful about that. But it did spend a lot of time in 2/3 because it really was a terrible problem. Sometimes it was driven without the thermostat in the summer (i sorted this out later). The overheating is from something else, not the cooling system (it is not perfect but it is good, new waterpump, second hand but good radiator, no leaky hoses etc.) I answered above also :) I should have said in the beginning of this long answer: you must check your timing and start there. Add a new fuel filter now too. About the CS device, no worries.* and go from there, stay in touch here and document your troubles so we can see how you and the car are doing. There must be dieselers around you, try to meet up and sort things out there too. Best of luck and dont*give up, soon your car running great again.* I will keep this thread updated. I hate it when someone solves the problem and then doesn't update the thread :( There are dieselers, but mercedes and they are kind of elitists here :) . all volvo d24 here are completely detuned smoky mess and rare to begin with. Thank you, there is no giving up. The car is here to stay :) |
Mrvos,
That`s awesome, sounds like you already have sorted things out by reading a lot about these engines AND that you have the willingness and courage to tackle it no matter what. Sounds like you have the idea about these engines and your car will run just perfect in not time if you get some d24 tools together and open up the Greenbook. That car is considered being in a lucky situation being yours because others would have scrapped it for poor running (blame the bad fixers) a hundred times already. SAVE IT! My answer will be short this time not just bc I have some bricking to do but bc there`s a huge priority for you here. Your pump timing absolutely must be rechecked and set right. As suspected at first, sounds like that is your problem. Based on what you say about the `mechanics` who played around the car and the length of efforts it took them to get it `running`(3days), I bet your engine is set to super- retard or overly advanced to the point of crappy running. 3 days of agony? I`m rolling my eyes and i`m glad (and surprised) that this car even runs with those kind of mechanics. You really must do the timing and set it to factory specs or a little above but i`d leave that for later... until after it gets set first and checks out and runs fine. Taking 3 days, is absolutely not normal and it tells us the (lack of) quality of skills they had to set the d24 up. These motors do take some skill and mechanics who think techniques are the same to dealing with it like it was a gasoline car should stay away from it. For a good, known old-school diesel mechanic or a weekend enthusiast VW dieseler with good skills and some experience on these motors plus a good coffee, doing the pump installation is not a huge job but it does take some time but definitely not 3days, closer to 3hours. And you can do it yourself, yes. The Greenbook goes through the entire process and clearly details every single step doing it the right way. Answer to your question to whether or not the inj pump belt could be replaced without resetting the fuel timing after the job... Yes, in a very very rare occasion the timing will stay correct or nearly the same but in most cases No the timing will be totally off and car will not run or it may run very badly and sound like crap and run the same. We are talking about tenths of a millimeter making a big difference in how it runs so go figure it out how important it is to check timing and set it right. :) Precise German engineering here, not a 1961 dumptruck. :) but the d24 can sound the same :)) So whenever the rear belt is replaced or adjusted, yes, the timing must be rechecked (and probably re-set). There are also easier ways to set timing than what the Greenbook says. Worst part of the job is that you`ll need some tools fabricated (or found at VW shops or even at volvo places to borrow? idk) and you will be able to do it pretty much in minutes. Some VW diesel timing tools CAN be used and if the vacuum pump is removed you could use the vw tools to set the timing by the book. With the Volvo timing tool, the vacuum pump can stay on which is more convenient. Finding tools for vw diesels will be easy for you there where you are (timing tools, a dial gauge etc). To install the injection pump itself, yes, you need to have tools (to hold pulley, to reach the pulley nut, etc) and it isnt a nice process when done in-car but yes absolutely you can do it in-car and you should be able to do it yourself. I`m happy to deal with this on the engine stand though today or tomorrow. makes life easier, especially bc in the 200 cars the space remaining between the firewall and the engine is very limited. Volvo even made their own tool to deal with the hard to reach bolt that secures the ip pulley where the belt runs on. Good luck and stay in touch as you said. Your car will be night and day once you set that timing to what the car needs. Collect some more info, hit up the Greenbook at the injection timing section and prep yourself for a long afternoon of action. Take videos :*) PS. Good that you took time answering the lengthy text because we do know now much more about what you are dealing with. Your dad didnt really work on this car? You said you had it for so long! Nice. But he never took it to a diesel shop to get valves adjusted? I think he did it himself but you were a kid and cant remember. I think he would if he did. LOL. Setting the valves is really nothing if you know what you are doing. And it gets done so quickly. The shims your car +may+ need, are widely available and even gasser audis and vw cars used the same setups over the bucket type valve system. You`ll find them no problem and they arent expensive. Valves need to get adjusted omg never done on this car since you had it for 100s of 1000s of miles? Try to do it ASAP! |
Thank you!
My vacation is in a week, so enough time then to check things out. By then i will source the parts. I just read the greenbook and it looks like a relatively simple job, only rotating the pump? (relative to camshaft and tdc) I have to check out if there is a need for an adapter for the dial indicator. Do you know the size of the bolt that covers the hole for the indicator and the general length of the probe? I have many dial indicators but all for machining. Will have to check it out. Dad worked on the car as much as he could. But the problem is that mechanics here are either incompetent or dishonest (steal parts and break cars on purpose) - funny thing, the breakdowns stopped when the visits to various mechanics stopped. We were told by absolutely everyone that the car is OK and that it should be that way (multiple bosch mechanics). And we changed 10s of mechanics and diesel shops! And it is true that most diesels here rattle and smoke a lot. Also, it is not cheap investment . About the valves - no he was told that there is no need to do it as well, i just asked him he laughed. Do you think that they could have messed up the pump reseal and setting? How does the process of setting the pump at the bench look like? What adjustments can i make to the pump without the test bench? And what to do with the fuel srew which i setup "by ear" so no guarantee? Also, do you know the diameter of the valve shims? |
The pump is way off, probably 1.x mm instead of 0.x mm and the pump is already pushed inwards to the engine a lot if i recall correctly (not sure if it can even go anymore inwards) - god knows where it is set.
So i intend to try and set it just with rotation and dial indicator but when that fails i intend to set it by loosening the camshaft bolt on the head and doing the method as per greenbook in chapter reinstalling the IP. So im making the tool now to have it just in case. What do you think about my plans? Btw i have a topic here called D24 na problematic everything if you wish no to clutter this one |
The valve shims are most likely 31mm in diameter. But dont struggle making them bc you would regret as they are widely available. Instead, spend the time and effort to find the tool to lift cam up and the catcher that grabs the shims for ya.
The length of the dial indicator doesnt matter as long as you are able to read values off it properly. The in and out movements of the pump 'plunger' dont exceed 2mm so you'll be fine with a simple vw diesel tool. But the face of the dial ideally reads from 0 to 100 not just until 50 as the vw tools do. Do the ip retiming in your spare car that has no brakes but runs/ran. Master your skills there... there's nothing that goes wrong as long as you dont butcher things up. Go by the greenbook or i highly suggest the method in the forum sticky. When you remove the ip or loosen up the pump, first loosen all hard lines at the injectors and at the pump also, best to remove the thing if you wanna be safest. Why? These hard lines are fragile and you want to preserve them from bending especially at the ends where they attach. also loosen their three or four clamps on them that are located at various places if still present...hopefully are because they have a function and are needed to keep them safe against vibration. Then you will be free to do ip removal if necessary and/or testing your tools etc. When the vacuum pump comes off be careful to note the plunger orientation and dont lose the gasket. Do this in cyl 1 at top dead center. You'll have a lot of space to experiment and learn the relatively easy and def straightforward injection pump timing setting procedure. It literally takes minutes when done right. If set right, it runs right. As the vacuum pump removed, while you remove valve cover also, to positively confirm about the cyl 1 TDC; you can also do valve adjustments if have the tools avail. Or at least check clearances!!! No tools needed for that! You would at least know how off they are or maybe just maybe within specs. Keep everything immaculately clean. Spray off everything, dirt can not be tolerated in pump or injectors and wont be. Dont forget the hood pad above. Cowl. Head. Valve cover and return lines etc all must be surgically cleaned when you open an inj pump in-car. So dont do it in a sandstorm :) |
The valve shims are the same as on Lada Samara (or some other lada not sure), 31mm, easy to get ~1euro a piece, so that is good info.
I am quite scared of dirt getting into the pump just from removing the screw for the dial indicator! Im not sure how sensitive the system is from experience, but it looks to be VERY sensitive. I made a dial indicator holder but its not as tight as i would like it to be so i will probs be re-making it. The pump blocking tool turned out nicely :) I will be making the cam block tool as well as the cam method looks to be the best (the one from the sticky) The valve cover gasket is ordered so when it arrives i can handle that (the current one is non recyclable (also it is original! :D) One of the hardlines is leaking btw, i thought it was from something else but no. Tightening doesn't help, so that's the next thing on the list. Also VERY ANNOYING thing - the notch on the flywheel housing IS BROKEN - for the love of god how? :) so i have to approximate the position provided it is not bent. Currently thinking of other ways to easily find the TDC since this is not really reliable (i can locate the middle of the broken arrow but im not sure if its bent) The essence is that the pump should be set 0.65-0.73mm when the engine is at the TDC? i will manage that one way or another. |
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https://www.d24t.com/showthread.php?t=1684 Rather rotate the loosened rear camshaft pulley relative to the camshaft and tdc. First rotate the IP outward, not to set timing but to make future rearmost glowplug and/or injector access easier. As Redarrow suggested, loosen slightly the injector hardlines at the IP so they don't get strained when rotating the IP. Retighten them (spec is 25 Nm, 18 ft-lbs, not as tight as most think!) after locking down the IP in its new position. Then you will set the timing by slightly rotating the (loosened) rear camshaft pulley until your desired reading (.95mm?) shows on the dial, then lock down the pulley bolt while holding the pulley in position, somewhat tricky, may take several attempts. You will want: Dial indicator Dial indicator extension piece Cam pulley wrench https://d24t.com/attachment.php?atta...6&d=1405467239 https://d24t.com/attachment.php?atta...7&d=1405467259 Dogleg cam pulley bolt wrench (tight access at firewall in a 240) http://d24t.com/attachment.php?attac...5&d=1405467219 Injector hardline wrench is nice to have-- some of those nuts are a challenge http://d24t.com/attachment.php?attac...8&d=1405467279 NOTE: IP pulley lock pin is not needed. Quote:
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Thank you, this is great info!
The greenbook manual recommends 0,65-0,73mm, that's all. The method is interesting and i will give it a go, similar to greenbook but easier :) The arrow is mangled and ripped off, i regret not taking a pic, will update the post when i do. Is there another good way to find the tdc on these? |
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If you have the green book manual or an online copy; they state what's best for the vehicle as per factory recommendation.
If I were you I would set the timing to between 0.83-0.85. Bellhousing is prob broken or chipped due to somebody trying to go around using the proper tools&method. As the greenbook says it too, cyl 1 TDC is easily found when the cam lobes are both pointing up and you can see the mark in the rear. Some cars have an X and a 0 and in that case you use the zero mark. I just timed a zf auto car's td engine and it doesnt have the x, only the zero. Some or all d24 nonturbos have both so pay attention. Here's a picture how the thing looks when the mark is "copied" into the engine casting from the bellhousing marker. On this engine it is 38mm away from* the exact center point* of the bellhousing bolt hole below it. (From Center-point OF THE HOLE to: where the mark starts on the edge of the engine body.) The first thing I do after buying a d24 engine is transfering the bellhousing mark into the engine casting by using a hand file! Only then the engine gets on the stand and thats btw when the bh needs to come off anyways. I can go and measure the same mark on my other, d24 nonturbo motors, for you to compare. Oh I didnt see that you received other replies too. Good! I've read them quite a lot but never seen any of my d24 or d24t greenbooks suggest 0.65-0.73! Follow factory specifications carefully, that's what they are for. :) Time it to around 0.85mm at first and see how it runs for you. Update: the yellow color nonturbo d24 engine is measured slightly differently bc I didnt want to fully open up the cover that I had put on it. It measured from center of the "bump" in the casting till the mark that I filed in when the d24 bellhousing was still attached. Consequently the d24 and d24t has the same. Hope this helps you to mark yours. Note that the rotating 0-mark will fall level with yours *twice, while at the same time the front crank pulley only rotates one revolution (360°). Not both 'meet-ups' indicate the TDC on cyl #1. Both cam lobes of cyl 1 need to point equally 'up' Green=d24t Yellow=d24 |
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Which greenbook do you have? Maybe i can find it too, mine looks to be original and is quite detailed. These values are repeated multiple times. But if your values are experimental, especially on a worn-in engine, that's better.
These markers from your photos are great info! Do you have an idea how to use them with the engine in the car? Maybe the positioning sleeve you are referencing from is mounted on a through hole that is visible with the bellhousing on? The 0 and the arrow meet twice, but only once on TDC, and i will know its TDC from the camshaft position, right? Side question, maybe i can find TDC through glowplug hole? |
You are right, the d24 greenbook does mention those values. It is a little misleading there because they also mention other values just a few pages apart. I have the same greenbook that you have and other versions/years as well, also the d24t editions for several years.
Even if you can see 0.65-0.73, you can (and should) totally ignore this part of the manual!... and time your engine to 0.80-0.90 as others here also suggested. About how to find TDC on cyl 1. It is super easy. You still haven`t uploaded a picture so we don`t know how `broken` your bellhousing may be. Maybe you only think it is but there`s nothing wrong with it. Take a picture, I want to see what you are dealing with. BTW, there`s a hole or little window in the bellhousing and via that hole you should be able to spot markings as you turn the crankshaft. If the surfaces are rusted, use a little soft sandpaper rolled up on a wooden pencil and ask someone to push it against the rotating surface to get it cleaned up while you are turning the crankshaft 27mm bolt, by hand. step 1 Find the marks made by factory. step 2 identify Top Dead Center for cylinder #1 step 3 reopen greenbook and follow the steps of their procedure OR READ THE FORUM STICKY as Ngoma suggested and detailed. You`ll need: dial that screws into the pump at the front middle after you removed the small bolt and its washer. Keep that washer dont lose it and never overtighten that bolt when you finish. Once you have the dial gauge set up after loosening or removing the fuel hard lines also (to save them from bending), then all you have to do is turning the engine and experimenting on what you see on the gauge and follow the greenbook. If I keep writing the same stuff over and over again, members of this forum will get annoyed and sign off lmao so please do read that manual very carefully now. Setting the timing literally takes minutes and must be done correctly for these engines to run well AND to run at all. There`s nothing you can screw up, if you cant seem to set it right, you`ll set it again and learn how to do it. And you have a whole entire spare d24 car to do all of this, which is a very lucky situation for you. Take your time and read everything we sent you and read again the greenbook manual. Once your tools are purchased or fabricated, this is a very easy task and you`ll always be able to do it at any time even on the side of the road with a flashlight and large mosquitos biting your face. Take pictures of the tools you are going to use, we need to see that, and the bellhousing that you think is damaged. About the TDC confirmed thru the glowplug hole, my answer is NO. You get the valve cover off and put your eyes where cylinder 1 is at the very front of the car/engine. The first two cam lobes, exhaust and intake, will be pointing equally `up` if you turn the crank to TDC cyl 1. If you need to see pictures on how this is done, go to valve adjustment section of the book. They have good illustrations of how the two lobes are positioned when the engine is in TDC for that cylinder. With this engine, there`s no shortcuts and you want to make sure that you set it right every time you open this engine up. German engineering with precise specifications and tight tolerances. That is exactly why they created their own tools for those who needed to work on these engines. A 170 year old Bosch mechanic setting timing for 3 days is not acceptable and shouldn`t be the case on a car that is now getting too rare to have to deal with that (they tried without the needed tools). Almost extinct and 40years old, your d24 should remain a survivor and run relatively well for some more years to come. :) It`s very nice that you have those people around though because they can help you find specific parts and know their way around sources, plus they have huge stories to crack you up. Proper tools are a must. The best is, if you plan on keeping the car for a long time, to hunt down factory tools at dealerships, ebay, abroad, etc. They do have a reason to exist and no mechanic can safely go around using them, highly suggested to do things right for the health of your car. You`ll be able to set just about everything right if you treat the greenbook as your d24 bible. That way you don`t need anyone to tinker around and mess things up. Just please read the book over and over again and try to pay close attention to how and why things are done. It is just a 40yo old diesel engine without computers. Mostly everything is mechanical, you`ll be fine fixing your own engine with basic tools but you will always need to know what you are doing. Within a few days I bet your car will be running better than ever and timing set by you. You`ll drive to the elderly buddies and show them how you set a Bosch pump up in 2020. :)) not by ear, at all, and, even with using earplugs. Dont give up and read about the stuff. Have you found vw timing tools at least and the dial gauge kit? |
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Thanks!
The bellhousing arrow is not as bad as i thought - photos are better than my eyes, and also the phone can get closer. I will try to view it perpendicular to the arrow, so that the arrow is in the middle of the hole (easier said than done due to heater core hoses). Still having problems with mounting the dial indicator, but that will end tomorrow i hope - by either finishing my mount properly or by literally installing it on a magnetic base for a lathe! jk i could buy it, finally found it but its quite expensive and low quality. Tried timing it today "by ear" as i was trying things out (also kinda impatient :) ) and it is so much better now! Cant wait to finally set it at 0.80mm and meet the true d24 :) |
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Good news and you have some progress.
That bellhousing doesn`t look that bad at all! I thought you`ll have a palm-sized chunk of it completely chipped off and missing. It`s good because as you would expect, the `arrow`is located in the very center of the bell shaped window. So you can just imagine that it`s still there then find the very center and mark it. You can time the engine using that very center point in the future (your own mark), and dont forget that your confirmation is the cyl1 tdc at the front cam lobes, pointing up. If you finally take videos, just upload them on youtube (quick process) and add a link in your post. Glad it runs better already. Did you manage to spot the factory `0` mark? Also, there`s a bolt visible in your picture, isn`t it the one that holds the rear belt cover? :) About the dial tool. Are you familiar with how it looks? I can take a picture. The tool turns INTO the IP, the `hollow` Volvo tool has threads at the pump end/pump side; and that`s how it gets `locked` in the pump. The long part that connects the internals of the IP with your dial gauge, is `running` through the hollow part (the gauge end of it is screwed into the dial gauge, the gauge with the long inside part then gets inserted through , `locked` again , but this time it locks at the `front side` (locks/secures to the hollow part). See picture below. This beautifully preserved, original, never used Volvo tool from 1986 is a good illustration for you. The dial gauge reads until 100 / 1 , which is very convenient for us, right? You wanna set your d24 to 0.85mm -- and not 0.73 :) . Note that the hollow part of the tool has an open end where it has threads and a `nut` can go on it and tighten the internal part of the tool into the hollow part, once you inserted it. But first take a look at the threaded part of the inside part. That, will thread into the dial gauge, if you undo the little `cover` that sits inside it. And that`s how it should be. (You don`t need that tiny part for this application.) You can also see that this gauge has a rotating face and a twist-lock, also you can set preload if you wish and monitor it in the inside dial face... Some do 2mm preload on it but I don`t. Anyways. So first the inside part threads into the gauge where you removed that tiny piece. Then the hollow part goes into the pump by its threads. It secures into pump. You turn in in until it stops and feels totally secured. Dont need to overtighten though. Then you insert the inside part with the gauge and as you add the locking nut you can already tighten it to secure the whole thing. As you insert this into pump thru the hollow part, feel gently the preload when the inside touches the inside of the pump. That`s when you set preload if desired and lock the other side of your tool. Don`t knock the pump, don`t knock the dial gauge. Treat it gently. bla bla now you are set to go two rotations clockwise on the crank, and then greenbook steps or sticky info. ... ... Just watch the lowest number....set the gauge to 0 when the lowest number shows up. You need to know where the cyl1 tdc is so start with that. Valve cover coming off. I just wanted you to see the tool, the rest is in the book and in sticky. You can do all of this with a `shorter` vw tool. Volvo simply made it this long in order for the mechanic to not have to remove the vacum pump for timing an engine (this runs all the way thru without the v.pump being in the way for timing. Best of luck, take picts. |
Finding TDC
Found a good method that may work for you:
"Here's a method I have used for finding exact TDC that does not require any fancy equipment. Remove the glowplug (and not the injector) from either #1 or #4 (#4 works easily for this). Rotate the crank until it is rising on the compression stroke for the cylinder. Then use a length of clear tubing pushed into the glow plug hole. Make a good seal around it. If necessary, use grease or sealant. Then place the other length of the hose in a container (preferably clear) of water. Rotate the crankshaft slowly and you will see bubbles coming out of the tubing. At exact TDC, the bubbles will stop moving out of the tube and water will start being pulled in." From http://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,46544.0.html, post #8. NOTE: Cylinder #1 will work best for us. Poster libbydiesel suggests to use #4 because on the VW 4-cyl, the IP hinders access for #1. Then you can epoxy a suitable replacement indicator to the bellhousing for the missing triangle indicator on yours. |
It's done, the engine is set at 0.85mm exactly. The car is much better now, ill explain soon.
Now i will explain what i did, the changes and the current situation of quite a bit of remaining issues :) You have helped me a lot! Now i've gained confidence with working with diesel systems :) Thank you for the detailed guidance. Part1: What i did. If you are a random future forum reader, dont do this, go to the sticky about IP timing! When i set the engine "by ear" it was at 0.75mm, and the car seemed a bit better than now (will explain below, but a bit less smoke at high speeds and seemed a bit faster, probably has to do with something else) What i learned from trial and error is that there is another way to set the timing (not going to say its the best but it was to my liking), using no special tools. I tried the forum method and it is certainly good, and the best with the right tools. I didn't like the dial indicator because it was either sticking a bit or moving a bit, not exact to the point of 0.05mm actually. And i hated breaking the camshaft bolt loose. So i tried "my" method. You dont need tools, but you do need a helper I jammed a phone deep inside the engine bay so i can see the bellhousing through the camera, excellent view from these new fancy smartphones. Still worried if i missed a tooth here due to angles (i tried very hard not to and i dont think i did) Took the valve cover off. Nasty silicone there I loosened the pump so i can rotate it. I used VERNIER CALIPERS instead of the dial indicator. But carefully! First of all, since the pump is open you must care about dirt and debree. The depth probe goes into the pump plug hole, and the caliper rests on the flat surface for the plug bolt. The pump has a small hole in the middle - deep inside, so the depth probe of the calipers can be tightly inserted into the hole (use quality calipers with ground metal probe with a small notch at the end, not that wire useless type). Then the helper turns the engine as i check the reading (constant pressure on the calipers), very easy to read and find everything. He has to stop from time to time so i can read the exact meas. Rotated the pump as needed. Check again. Spin the engine a few turns and recheck etc. All is well. Assemble and end. Double checked with the dial indicator, its good but all i know from it is that its between 0.8mm and 0.9mm. (i used quality indicators btw). I will loosen the hardlines so they can relieve if there is any tension. btw i cranked the engine without the pump screw (glowplugs off) to spit out if there was any dirt. Not sure if it was smart but i did it every time and seems ok. Part 2: changes and issues The car runs much better now. Much less smoke. Much less stutter on acceleration when cold (although it was smoother at 0.75mm). Issues: Smoke. Much less - almost 0 smoke at idle, little smoke when revving stationary car (gray), quite a bit of smoke when going 80+ kph and hard accelerating (gray-white smoke). Top speed is now maybe 120kph (was a bit easier to reach maybe when at 0.75mm) NOT AT ALL EASY TO REACH Acceleration. Car accelerates quickly to 50kph, than a flat spot that takes really long until 80kph and then after considerable time i can reach 100kph and after even more time 110kph and eventually almost 120kph. My speedo is precise btw. And when doing that, 90+kph, a lot of smoke (white-gray)). And smokes (gray-white) at acceleration. When under pressure and in higher rpm it smokes like that. Not really gaining rpm as smooth as i thought it would when accelerating. Probably subjective. Not visible on video. Still a bit of stutter when cold accelerating in 2nd gear with lower revs. Also was less at 0.75mm a bit. Starting. No CS device. We know it has very low compression, but even in these warm summer days i have to pull the lever of the CS to start. And use glow plugs for around 10s. I have the fast starter. Starts excellent without glow plugs when warm. Still wont pull uphill and looses momentum as if i was towing a very heavy trailer. Almost no changes here. (3rd gear impossible on moderate hills - unless i accumulate a lot of speed before) Maybe all this is due to low compression? Remaining jobs: Valve timing. Soon the parts arrive. Fuel screw (it was set by ear by me, so god knows, the mileage is okay, not spectacular tbh but good (around (+-0.5l) 6l/100km when going 80kph)) Service - hoses, hardlines (atleast one), filter... Install a copper washer on pump plug as ofc it wasn't there Im thinking of making a manual cold start device operated from the inside, will post it here if it turns out okay. Do you have any ideas or suggestions? Loosen the pump belt as the mechanics made it tightt What kind of video should i film? |
This is great progress.
It`s very late there now in Belgrade so I`ll shorten my answer so it reaches you before you sign off. Good job setting the timing! If I were you, I`d go back and reconfirm the timing at least a few times (spinning the engine multiple times or by driving it for a little while). When you said, I quote, "higher speeds", there was a sarcastic smile on my face. :) I know these cars run quite slow and reach top speed damn slowly but we have torque. The person reading this, if you never owned a d24 car, you dont exactly know the feeling of holding steering wheel on top with two hands and waiting for your car to kill the hill before the hill kills the car... :) we still like our slow d24 Volvos. Here I`d mention that you should be able to climb hills better, maybe* faster and stronger than what you are describing. But you have a really good start at fixing up all your troubles. It already runs much better and we knew it will. :) Maybe consider a brand new fuel filter (best time is now, you need adequate feedback on how it runs and not some partially clogged filter situation), perhaps and air filter too and some really good checkup on the entire fuel system. Get a clear hose for between the filter and the IP too and do use clamps. The smoke It is probably not from readjusting (or misadjusting) your timing but from other maybe typical factors, such as -recent years` driving style was too `slow` -etc, look for car-smoke causes in `Sticky` of this forum -and consider having your injectors checked, rebuilt etc or you could do it on your own one day in the future -your car may start clearing up internally and lose some of the smoking you described having 120kph top speed isn`t super maxxed out, it should be able to do 135-140 maybe but again, there are a ton of factors for that to happen, too... tires including pressure of tires, fuel quality, injectors` condition, road surface types etc, weather, etc and much much more. No worries about your top speed for now and do not push it much until you set things really well and keep testing car on local roads and shorter trips in town. I`m not saying you have to fold side mirrors for a higher top speed but certainly you have many things to do before attempting to keep breaking your own topspeed records. I think of thermostat, condition of cooling hoses, injectors, setting fuel quantity right, maybe adjusting the pump linkages if misadjusted by someone, take a look at max rev stopper alignments etc, could use a fuel octane booster (dont overdo it), diesel additive, flush the IP using low pressure pump or vacuum, reseal manifolds and check exhaust etc. Especially bc this car is just a setup experiment vehicle currently. You want it to run as well as possible. I highly suggest you do only 1 fix at a time so when/if it goes wrong, you know what to reset... and to where it was set. That`s my advice and some will think it is bad advice but it works best for me. Originated here on this forum. My d24t doesnt have the IP timing hole copper washer either but it doesnt leak at all despite I did not overtighten it. It`s good to have but isn`t a must. Some pumps I opened didn`t have it. A note. If your cars starts `excellent` when warm, you perhaps have no badly low compression. Do you mean warm as warm weather or warm as warm engine? If warm engine starts really well or excellent, you prob dont have horrible compression. Do you energize glowplugs manually?? Good job on starting with the IP stuff bc that maybe means the most and contributes the most in how these cars run. By planning to redo the too tight rear belt loosening repair you are protecting the injection pump shaft seal from wearing out too early which can cause developing a fuel leak. I`ve seen a d24 run with that belt installed so tightly that you could hear the grinding. :mad: Do follow torque specs on the cam bolt and the ip bolt as well. |
Thanks :)
I will reconfirm the timing, but sounds okay. The injectors were rebuilt. I dont see the smoke sticky? The engine starts great without plugs when its warm (the engine is warm :), and also, coincidentally, its warm outside). Yes, i energise the plugs manually, much easier and better. Everything is manual here, even the solenoid on the pump :) I have to make new wiring harness because this one is more than horrible (literally no insulation on wires in the harness, only isolated by dirt and oxidation), im thinking of making more manual parts - the starter magnet etc, much cleaner setup imo. I have the new filters in the trunk, ready :) also overflow tubes etc, all is going to be new. Also, can the compression loss be caused by the never adjusted valves? Are you ready for the compression numbers? From a few months ago - 20, 19, 16, 17, 17, 16. Nice :) Quite easy to spin the engine too. That happens when you do 450k on the original injectors probably. My plan now is to mess with the fuel screw, idle and throttle position. But to do the valves first. |
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Compression numbers are not relevant unless the valves are set to factory specs. There's 20% difference measured between certain cylinders so that's not good either. 20 vs 16. Consider that whole compr test result useless until you redo it yourself, the right way. You might want to look at the compr again but I wouldn't bother. But the never adjusted valves Must be looked at, as soon as you can. 450k without a valve adjustment is a lot (280,000miles). Postpone doing top speed attempts for now :')
Having new nozzles put into an injector is not a rebuild bc it needs to be properly set too. Ask how they rebuilt it. The insulation some of our Volvos used is made out of recycled mousepoop mixed with M&M's candy for color, and chrystallized sugar for stiffness to make sure it all breaks apart when you touch it. Suspect it all going biodegradable by now. Simply low quality...plus think of fuel vapor (diesel mist), oil, coolant whatever and engine heat constantly attacking it for decades. The good news is that the diesels literally need just a few wires. If you decide to deal with making a new harness, carefully track and register/draw length, thickness, color and routing of each line. Dave Barton sells harnesses too. https://www.240turbo.com/volvoharnesses.html PS. Yeah, start with the valves now. FYI, you do not need tools, at all, to CHECK the valve clearances. Only a feeler gauge kit. Cheaply found anywhere and it doesn`t have to be anything special. something like this works well, you can have a 2nd set too to combine values and measure that way. COLD ENGINE! https://www.ebay.com/i/401459937178?...saAmE0EALw_wcB Order a valve cover gasket too, a 1-piece rubber version from GOETZE. Best available, won`t leak. |
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These kits are nice, i didn't know anyone made them anymore. My harness isnt that type but it was touched by god knows who and always exposed to water and salt as there is no plastic skidplate (sometimes the car is funny when wet, luckily nothing electrical is critical :') I will make it - i found a cracked original as sa sample.
Great idea for the lawnmower throttle control! There is no cs device on the pump, it is removed and the cooling lines bypassed. Also, there is no cable. Also, there is no altitude compensation solenoid as far as i'm aware, only the fuel cut off electro valve. Are you sure i have it? Also, when i pull the cs lever and then release it, the lever retracts to initial position - but the pump inside doesn't until the engine is moved quite a bit. Is it sticking or is this normal? I dont remember this happening before the "rebuild" of the pump. But wasn't paying much attention to that as i thought that i wont have to deal with it personally :) |
Not having that crap skidplate has benefits such as
You will see all kinds of leaks right away Engine has more efficient cooling |
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I'm almost certain its not there. Also, this is an euro car.
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If it's there we can't see it because it's exactly behind the dipstick and vertical hose in your photo angle! :p
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Hello everyone!
Hope you are all well! Many things got in the way of all this - but its all done. Checked valves - all good except for 6 which was o.k. but still i adjusted it Installed clear hoses - no bubbles New filter New blow-by hose The car runs very well, most problems are gone - although the top speed is still unchanged max 115km/h maybe less (GPS info) What now :D *in the meantime the car drove ~1500km, it didnt really clean up, still smokes quite a lot. |
Good progress.
I am guessing that by now you know how to set the timing and perhaps did that very precisely And that you also double-checked it again. And you said your filter is new (=good point). Describe what kind of smoke you are seeing, what color, etc, how much of it... and... when (cold, warm, both, under load, *always?, in all conditions?, etc). I recall your injectors were set at a Bosch shop (?) so for now I wouldn't blame them. Is your timing set well, 100% ? By the way, what did you set it to? |
Yes, the timing is at 0.86mm i think, i will check it again but it doesn't seem changed. I checked it after a few miles after adjusting.
The injectors were done at a bosch shop, yes :) But they were also incompetent to set the timing if you recall. Top speed problem is weird and not pleasant - not that i intend to drive faster but its difficult with the car around trucks and hills. My cruising speed of 80kph is awfully close to top speed :) Smoke: -a lot of thick white-gray on cold mornings, lasts a few mins -no smoke at warm idle at all, very little smoke at coldish idle -A lot of blue/gray/white smoke combo when hard(ish) accelerating --- a weird mix of all, seem a bit different from day to day -a lot of same smoke from point above when cruising at 80kph (permamently seen in rear view mirror) There is so much smoke that im getting "the look" from other people in traffic often. |
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