Removing the IP

[Duecento]

What is the best way to remove the IP on a 2.4T. I need to disassemble the IP to free up the supply pump vanes. Remove the IP and mount as one unit or work the sprocket off the pump and leave the bracket bolted to the block? Neither looks like fun.
Jason

[michaelovitch]

Leave the bracket on the block.

3 bolts to remove the pump.
2 easy and one hidden next to the last glowplug.
remove the pulley first without loosing the tiny key !

i think it's easier that way.

[v8volvo]

Neither is much fun, but leaving the bracket on the block is the better way, if you have the tools to do it.

Removing the bracket means you have to disconnect the #6 glow plug terminal, since the GP bus bar goes around and through a hole in the bracket. Not easy to get to, though note that the bus has a forked end, so if you can just get the 8mm GP nut loose, you don't have to take it all the way off the GP terminal, just pull the bus bar out. Taking bracket off also means you have to spend the time to get the rear belt tension set correctly again when you reinstall it, which is a laborious process. (Pump bracket has vertical slotted mounting holes that adjusts pump position relative to engine, so you have to loosen these and jack pump up or down to set belt tension... takes a few tries and accessing the fasteners can be a PITA.) If you can leave the bracket in place then belt tension is not altered which saves you the time of fooling with that.

The tricky part about taking the pump off while leaving the bracket in place is that the pump drive gear is a taper fit on the shaft. Space is very tight between the pump gear and firewall so virtually every puller available to get the gear off the shaft is not able to fit. Volvo has a special tool for this purpose but it is not easily obtainable. I have tried to improvise and have not found a good method, so I have always had to take the pump off with bracket attached. I don't like doing it, but don't have the ability to it any other way...

What is the reason you are taking the pump off? Depending on what it needs, you may be able to do the work you are trying to do with the pump still on the engine and save yourself some extra work...

If you end up removing the pump, good idea to replace #5+6 glow plugs while it is out of the way -- much easier to do it now while access is easy than later on!

[ngoma]

He said he needs to unstick the stuck lift pump vanes.

Hey Duecento, be careful with that IP drive gear, I have seen two professional mechanics break them when removing them! Evidently, they can break pretty easy.

[piper109]

I would be interested to know why you think the lift pump vanes are stuck. That must not be easy to achieve. The IP was sitting for a long time with some water in the fuel perhaps? Are youable to pump fuel freely from the inlet to the outlet? (with the outlet orifice removed of course)
There is a good write on the web somewhere which shows how to dismantle the VE IP from a Peugeot. Its been translated from French into English. It would be a good reference to have for that job.

Steve

[Duecento]

The IP was hard to turn for a couple of revolutions then got much freer. It has no leaks on the suction side but it will not pull enough fuel to run over idle, even run out of a can above the IP. No fuel exits the pump when running. With a lift pump (<5 psi) installed it runs much better and is drivable, yet no fuel exits the return fitting. What else could it be?

The car sat for some time before I got it. Slobodan apparently worked on it last. It had just had the head off and most of the valves had 1-2 mm clearance and it had almost no compression, so I expected a bunch of bent valves from a mis-timed cam at some time since it last ran. When I got the head off it had either been hot tanked w/o disassembly or they used some Ventil Sauber on it and didn't run it long enough to pass the carbon through. Big flaky chunks holding the valves open. Anyway, I touched up the valves and threw the head back on. The motor has been rebuilt - .5 mm oversized pistons and a pretty fresh head.

Anybody know what the IP sprocket remover looks like?

[v8volvo]

310
#5204 in this picture, a.k.a. # 9995204 if you want to try to look it up in Volvo's tool/parts catalog system.

Fairly standard type 2-jaw gear puller with jack screw, but slim enough to fit between the IP gear and firewall. I have found other 2-jaw pullers that work when the pump (and bracket) are out of the car, but have not been able to find a tool constructed in such a way as to make it possible to do it in-situ. I guess the Volvo tool was specially designed for that exact purpose. ;)

Tasca has the tool listed for $67. I should have bought one long ago. I have been slowly working on assembling a complete spare set of Volvo Diesel special tools for renting out to members in need of them. Maybe I should buy this tool now. Would you (or others on here) be interested in contributing some money towards this purchase? (Your contribution would, in this case, equate to renting the tool.)

I would be happy to loan out the 2-jaw puller I have that works outside the car, for a nominal deposit.... but then you would have to take the pump off the car with bracket attached.

[v8volvo]

Hey Duecento, be careful with that IP drive gear, I have seen two professional mechanics break them when removing them!

Hmmm.... I have no idea whom you could be talking about. :o

Yes, ngoma is right, if using a 2- or 3-jaw hook-type puller, be sure to slip the hooks inside the holes of the drive gear rather than trying to pull against the flange on the gear's outer edge... the flange will break. And leave the shaft nut spun partway on so that when the gear comes free it does not fly off and hit the ground, which will also cause it to break.

There's a half-moon woodruff key in there too that you will want to take care not to lose.

Are you sure that the inlet and outlet banjo bolts are in their correct positions? The outlet banjo has very small orifices that are part of the pump's internal pressure regulation system, while the inlet banjo has full-sized holes for free flowing of fuel into the pump... But the bolts are the same size and can be mixed up when the car is being worked on. I have seen this scenario happen at least once, and it really screws up the pump's function. If they are transposed then the outlet banjo in the in position will present a major fuel flow restriction and the lack of the restrictor orifices in the outlet plays havoc with the pump's internal pressure regulation, resulting in very poor running and inability to increase speed much above idle.

The inlet banjo has a plain top, while the outlet banjo has a big "OUT" stamped in it. Worth a look to make sure yours aren't swapped. Also I assume you have ensured free fuel flow to the pump, fresh fuel filter, no line restrictions, etc....

By the same token, if those little orifices in the outlet banjo become plugged with debris, it will cause pump misbehavior.... Long shot though. It does sound like you have an IP transfer pump issue. I had one with a vane pump failure last summer that gave similar symptoms, though that car would not even start at all without having positive pressure applied to the inlet. Never hurts to try all the diagnostic steps first though, before committing to pulling off the IP and taking it apart....

[piper109]

It might be worth running a quart of transmission fluid or MMO through it to see if that would free up the vanes. I would be inclined to run the car a little so that the IP is full of one of those fluids, shut it down, leave it for a day or so, then run it again. It might work. Sure beats pulling the IP down and you would only be out the cost of a quart of fluid.

Steve

[Duecento]

I tried that with PB Blaster when I first got the car and it seemed to make some difference. I think I will verify the banjo bolt placement as I never had that stuff apart so they could be reversed and I would not have noticed. I missed an Audi 5G TD that had the bolts switched about 4 months ago. The guy figured it out before I could come up with the money. I knew the problem over the phone, but could not raise the money in time. Nice car that went for $500. I just went out and checked and the bolts are in right. I will check for a plugged orifice in the "OUT" bolt in the morning. Then off with the pump.

[michaelovitch]

I've used a punch made of wood and banged it with a hammer.
Banged ,yes, but gently, on one side and on the other after having soaked with wd 40.


It worked godd each time.

You can heat up the pulley too :)

[piper109]

If you say it runs well with a 5 psi electric pump, it could be a air leak that's affecting the pump's ability to suck fuel. The shaft seal behind the pulley comes to mind.

Steve

[michaelovitch]

I would be interested to know why you think the lift pump vanes are stuck. That must not be easy to achieve. The IP was sitting for a long time with some water in the fuel perhaps? Are youable to pump fuel freely from the inlet to the outlet? (with the outlet orifice removed of course)
There is a good write on the web somewhere which shows how to dismantle the VE IP from a Peugeot. Its been translated from French into English. It would be a good reference to have for that job.

Steve

I think you speak about that :

http://www.forum-auto.com/pole-technique/mecanique-electronique/sujet293129.htm

http://contrails.free.fr/engine_bosch_ve.php

in english :

http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6694


My contribution :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19099617/Bosch-Ve-Pumps

:p :)

[Duecento]

If you say it runs well with a 5 psi electric pump, it could be a air leak that's affecting the pump's ability to suck fuel. The shaft seal behind the pulley comes to mind.

Steve

The shaft seal is fine. It does not let the fuel flow back to the pump when it sits.

[ngoma]

I've used a punch made of wood and banged it with a hammer.
Banged ,yes, but gently, on one side and on the other after having soaked with wd 40.


It worked godd each time.
This works, maybe even better than gear puller, for a tapered shaft fit application.