Keep glowplugs on for longer?

[ian2000t]

I'm running Veg now (usually 50-60% mixed with diesel or misfuel). Car always starts, but sometimes on a lumpy 4/5 cylinders if the temps are a bit low. I actually have no Cold Start at the moment because it seized and Volvo want £65.00 for a replacement wax stat, so the timing 0.96mm is probably a bit too retarded for cold starts.

As a cheap temporary fix until I find a good secondhand cold start, is there any way I can make the glowplugs stay on for the first 10 seconds of engine running, rather than just pre-heating them and starting when they switch off? I think this would help get the remaining cylinders going before I drive off.

I know I could take the relay out, put a standard 100A relay and 80A fuse in linked to a rocker switch in the car, but just wondered if anything can be done with the standard glowplug relay? Or maybe there is some reason the glowplugs should not be "lit" during the engine running?


Engine has been well serviced already - monark nozzles at 163bar, glowplugs, valve gaps done, oil changes, etc.

[michaelovitch]

There is a post heating system in this relay.
If the sender is still good and plugged it should post heat alone.
the viscosity of your mix is faulty i think.
have you got hydraulic lifters ?

[v8volvo]

Does it start easily on diesel? If it does, then you don't have a problem with your motor; your issue is with your fuel mix, and the poor starting is a major warning sign that you need to re-think your fuel blend before things get much worse very quickly.

The D24T relay does have an after-glow provision; it is only about 2-5 seconds after the key is released rather than 10, but in a healthy engine running on good fuel, it is plenty. If you find yourself needing more than that, then you have an engine compression, timing, or injector problem (and I it sounds like you have pretty well made sure your unit does not have any of those issues), or again, you need to reduce your veg oil usage.

Let me be clear -- running veg in your mix without a heated fuel system, at a high enough percentage to affect starting, is asking for trouble. Running small enough quantities that it does not affect engine operation -- small enough quantities that you really think of the veg as an additive, not a significant component of your fuel) you can get away with OK, though you will go through fuel filters at 3 or 4 times the rate you normally would, especially in colder weather when there is some precipitate drop-out from the unheated veg, which cuts into your savings a bit. However, running 50-60% without a heated fuel system is a sure recipe for engine and fuel system destruction, landing you with a dead motor and a big bill, at which point the idea of savings from running cheap fuel starts to sound a little silly......

[ian2000t]

Yes, it starts fine on pure diesel (on a cold morning needs 2 heats of the glowplugs and does chug a little). Bear in mind I have no cold start device at the moment. With the cold start lever manually activated it starts fine with veg oil in a 50/50 mix with diesel. However, I can't find a good cold start device and the waxstat replacement is £60+VAT from Volvo.

Also, bear in mind that I'm using SVO currently - i.e. Straight Veg Oil from the supermarket. No fats etc to drop out as temp falls. I have so far changed fuel filters twice (in 8,000 miles I've had the car) but this was precaution - neither needed changing, but at £5 a time I thought it was worthwhile as Veg oil can clean any diesel deposits from the fuel system/tank.

I will be using WVO soon - waste veg oil. However, I am processing it very carefully. Pour just good liquid oil through a bedsheet into a Burco Tea Earn. Heat it to 90-100C first for an hour or 2. Some water evaporates, some falls to the bottom (below the tap). Leave it to cool till the following day. Any fats and water fall to the bottom below the tap. Drain good oil off through filter socks (50mic, 25mic, 1mic) at the coldest possible time. This ensures all possible fats are caught in the filter socks. So, if I filtered tonight when it's 5C, unless it dropped to -5C (which it won't this week). I then will be pre-mixing it with 10% petrol (in bottles, before it goes in the tank) and adding a couple of caps of veggi-boost, which is a cetane enhancer. So I'm not just dumping old oil through a tea towell into the car and expecting it to start! 10% petrol should roughly halve the viscosity of the veg oil.


Re: Glowplug relay - my glowplug light lights up (only if engine cool) and stays on for probably 5 secs... then I start the car. The light never stays on after I've started the car. Has anyone got a wiring diagram for the glowplug relay?

[michaelovitch]

I don't want to be annoying or bitching but :
first : how want you start correctly without cold start device ? mmhh?
Your first step is this device: think it's a vw engine : this device is avaible at a vw dealer and others brands using the ve pump !
the golf 2 3 etc...the vw lt peugeot too etc....at the junk yard .

then you do not have to cycle 2 times the glow plugs if the system work properly.

my sister's car have 250 000 kms and the engine cranck even if it's very cold on the first time.

remember the vo is thicker and is less well sprayed by your injectors even once hot.

thicker means slower and you have to set the pump with a bit more advance.

[ian2000t]

Thanks for your reply. I see where you are coming from. Please note though, that although in the US these engines are more common, they are rare over here. Also, yes similar to a Vw golf, or LT engine, and same type of pump as many other diesels, I believe the cold start is unique to Volvo. I know for certain that the Vw LT35 that this 6 cylinder was also used in had a manual cable operated cold start, not a wax stat like Volvo...their the Vw dealers are no use to me.

This is why I was asking about keeping the glow plugs on - if I can do something like that and it costs me just the wire in my garage and time, then that write be my temporary solution until I find a good cold start.

[michaelovitch]

278Thanks for your reply. I see where you are coming from. Please note though, that although in the US these engines are more common, they are rare over here. Also, yes similar to a Vw golf, or LT engine, and same type of pump as many other diesels, I believe the cold start is unique to Volvo. I know for certain that the Vw LT35 that this 6 cylinder was also used in had a manual cable operated cold start, not a wax stat like Volvo...their the Vw dealers are no use to me.

This is why I was asking about keeping the glow plugs on - if I can do something like that and it costs me just the wire in my garage and time, then that write be my temporary solution until I find a good cold start.

you're right about the LT it's a cable with a red square attachment on the pump ! i forgot it i've bought one two months ago :o

I f you are in the UK you have this cold start device on the citroen xm and others brands it's not a volvo specific system i'm sure of that.

a rapid search on google will help you to see this system is not specific. "cold start device ve pump"
The d24 is not "rare" here in France i'm lucky for that.


you really need this cold start device it will help a lot.
you will can find it at the others dealers for sure :)

remember the thickness doesn't help too

if you plan on a glow plug homemade button use a relay 80 amps or 2 40 amps like you said from golf or VAG cars to power the glowplugs.

don't run a straight wire to the glowplugs in your car:D or it could be dangerous.


FROM A CITROEN XM

http://i75.servimg.com/u/f75/11/85/90/82/demarr10.jpg


FORD TRANSIT

http://www.forum-auto.com/pole-technique/mecanique-electronique/sujet482899.htm

here there is the preheating system diagram :

http://www.scribd.com/doc/59773021/volvo-D24-Preheating

you can have others useful things on my account !

the cold strat device PAGE 41 here : http://www.scribd.com/doc/19099617/Bosch-Ve-Pumps

[ian2000t]

V8Volvo:

I tried to PM you but your box is full. I was hoping you could give me some more explanation as to what problems the hunting on startup is likely to cause if you don't mind? Not that I don't believe it's a bad thing, I just like to understand why it is.

Message I tried to send:
Hi mate, hope you don't mind me contacting you. As you might remember I run Veg oil on my motor and was experiencing some hunting on startup, which you warned was bad and to re-think the % of veg usage.

If it does, then you don't have a problem with your motor; your issue is with your fuel mix, and the poor starting is a major warning sign that you need to re-think your fuel blend before things get much worse very quickly.

I have currently increased the petrol % to 15% and use a cetane enhancer which has helped a lot, and I will be adding a fuel heater very soon (although this will not affect cold starting I understand). If I manually hold the cold start open it starts with barely any hunting but I am still really struggling with the CSV unit.

The reason I am contacting you is for further explanation of what you said before "before things get much worse very quickly". I understand hunting on startup isn't good for a diesel, but I've not found anything that says what problems it causes. The only thing I can think of is unburnt veg making it's way through the pre-chamber and into the combustion chamber, and then collecting in the rings and drying hard... leading to sticking rings. Is this what you were referring to?

[ngoma]

The only thing I can think of is unburnt veg making it's way through the pre-chamber and into the combustion chamber, and then collecting in the rings and drying hard... leading to sticking rings. Is this what you were referring to?
Likely also passing the rings and making its way into the oil sump. Over time, the veg tends to polymerize into lumpy sludge which will get distributed thru the engine. This lumpy sludge does not lubricate well...

But ring coking itself is bad enough. The most important thing a diesel engine needs is good compression.

[ian2000t]

Right, good points. IDI diesels are far less susceptible to veg oil making it into/past the rings than DI diesels, but obviously they are not completely void from the issue.

I change oil every 5,000 miles (maybe sooner) and always use semi-synth. Last time was 10/40, this time 5/30 for the winter months. Before I started using Veg I also ran some BC109 through the oil before change - I will do this again the next time I change the oil.

Understood about ring coking. I think my engine may always have had low compression on one cylinder, as there is always a bit of a "shake" to the idle when warm - has done this since I bought it. I thought new nozzles had resolved it, but no. I am going to add water injection very soon which on the veg forum has been very successful in resolving ring coking, low compression, and crankcase pressure (blow-by) on several cars - mainly the Mercedes OM606 IDI's. I will be using it as a preventative measure, but also wonder if it will stop my "shakey" idle that I've had all along.

I have gone for a very small misting nozzle (1Gph), and a 65psi pump, so it should produce the finest mist (fog), so not for performance increase, just a "steam cleaning". I will give it a few motorway miles with it switched on (when the boost is 5psi+). If it does any good, I will get a boost operated switch and set it to 10psi.

[v8volvo]

Sorry your PM didn't come through -- I needed to delete some messages.

My concern was not about the hunting per se. A hunting idle is not a problem really in and of itself, it is more that it's a sign of some other problem occurring. If veg were not in the equation and a car was experiencing hunting after a cold start, I would want to check out a handful of things to make sure one of them wasn't off kilter: static cam and IP timing, valve clearances, cold start device function, air leaks into fuel system, fuel filter restriction, and, if all of those checked out OK, injector nozzle condition and engine compression. It sounds like you have addressed most of those, and your engine starts easily and evenly on 100% diesel, right?

Since you are introducing VO as an additional factor, my recommendation was to use your ear as a guide for what blend percentages were making the engine happy or unhappy. Hunting is a sign that it is not happy, since it (along with other warning signs you are probably seeing such as smoke and noisy running) is telling you that your fuel is not burning well. Poor combustion is what leads to crankcase oil contamination, ring damage, cylinder glazing, etc. So it is not the hunting itself that I would worry about leading to worse things, but rather, the factor that is causing the hunting symptom *also* causing other damage down the road.

If you are running veg in high percentages -- especially if you are doing it in the winter without heating the fuel -- I strongly recommend that you change the oil very, very often, much more often than every 5k. You are likely experiencing a fairly high rate of oil contamination and you do not want to allow it to get to the point of polymerization, since that will be the beginning of the end for the engine, which you have put so much work/money/love into. :)

In most normal cases I strongly recommend 5W40 full synthetic changed every 5k, but in your case, for cost reasons, sticking with semi-sym and changing it every 2-3k would probably be fine. Unless you are performing used oil analysis to ensure that it is OK for your situation, I think that 5k-mile oil change intervals with unheated veg blend fuel is probably pushing it.

I never heard before about water injection helping keep things clean when using VO, but it makes sense. I will be interested to hear how it works for you.

[ian2000t]

Will keep a look out for cheap oil - the last lot was from Asda, about £5 for 5 ltrs of semi synth 5/30 and try and change as frequently as possible. And as I said before I'll run some more BC109 through it before I drop the oil every other change.

I have just added last night a HIH (hose in hose) heat exchanger. Not running my fuel line through it yet, but once I know it's not leaking coolant anywhere and it's getting warm, I will do. Not the most effective Heat Exhanger but simple, cheap and puts the IP under least strain lifting the fuel from the tank. Obviously it will take a while for this to heat the oil up as it relies on coolant.

Think I have all the bits I need for Water Injection now, just testing it off the car first - once I'm happy then I will install it and see how it goes. Here's the thread on the Veg forum about it. They were injecting pre-turbo to start with (just to test it's afectiveness) which isn't a long-term option as it will wear the turbo quickly.

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid=15095&page=1#pid160964

[v8volvo]

If you are concerned about overworking the injection pump pulling fuel from the tank, heat is the #1 thing to add, but you may also want to install a small low-pressure electric lift pump in line as well.

[Volvoist]

Let me be clear -- running veg in your mix without a heated fuel system, at a high enough percentage to affect starting, is asking for trouble. Running small enough quantities that it does not affect engine operation -- small enough quantities that you really think of the veg as an additive, not a significant component of your fuel) you can get away with OK, though you will go through fuel filters at 3 or 4 times the rate you normally would, especially in colder weather when there is some precipitate drop-out from the unheated veg, which cuts into your savings a bit. However, running 50-60% without a heated fuel system is a sure recipe for engine and fuel system destruction, landing you with a dead motor and a big bill, at which point the idea of savings from running cheap fuel starts to sound a little silly......

What exactly can happen? I am wondering if this led to my destroyed GP's and motor in my 84. I was running 100% biodiesel, already processed from a local biofuels company. I don't want to trash another motor if this was the reason. I am also running it in my wifes Jeep Liberty CRD (though not at 100% usually) and around 40% in my home furnace...

[Jason]

What kind of GPs? Anything other than Bosch is probably junk, and even some Bosch plugs haven't lasted me very long. Seems kind of hit and miss. I replaced some of the plugs in my old engine a couple times within a couple years, while the set i have now in the new engine has been in for over a year and they are all fine.

jason

[Volvoist]

I have/had Bosch 80010's. They are the only plugs I have ever used in a D24/D24T and have never ever had any issues in the past...

[ian2000t]

It "could" have contributed. Well made bio should be usable in any car just like pump diesel.

But I think in the winter it probably is still a bit thicker than pump diesel, meaning your injectors may not "mist" aswell which could lead to issues. Another thing is generally you need to run a little more advance with bio/veg. If you aren't it is running a little too retarded which I believe leads to higher EGT's?

Are you sure your glowplugs are not getting some kind of voltage after the initial "glow"?

[Volvoist]

Hmm, I did have the timing to the Euro spec'd setting, somewhere around 0.93 I believe... that and the bio in the cold, that could have contributed. I'd just like to know for sure... I want to avoid this mishap again, if in fact it was my fault and was preventable...

[michaelovitch]

Like written the good glow plugs are BOSCH : 0 250 201 032 / 80010


If one broke off in the engine that's mean your injection system was not properly tuned : leaky injectors or bad advance or bad release pressure.
VO tends to make the nozzles very dirty and make the spray pattern bad the more you use it.

Like i wrote yet VO is a way thicker ,and so slower, when you inject it (even very well heated) that mean you need to retune according to it's own properties.

With normal fuel the correct advance on a d24 t is 0.87 to 0.95 when checking and works good at 0.95.

with VO it's very different.....

Try this yet :

http://www.forum4x4.org/threads/89419-CHAUFFAGE-DU-FILTRE-A-GAZOIL/page5


VO needs to be heated and filtered VERY WELL !!

[Volvoist]

I have/had been running biodiesel, bought from a company locally that does biofuels. It is already filtered, washed, etc. Even some PennDot vehicles and equipment run fuel from this place. That said, what should I be running the timing at? I want to be able to switch back and forth. I had four break off, one was burned out (may have been as I noticed it stumbled a little at start up for a few weeks leading to this event), and the other was fine. I am sending the injectors to a close friend in NY with some parts that he ordered from me, and will have him test them, first with the biodiesel after chilling it in the refrigerator, then at ambient temperature, then with regular diesel. I want to know once and for all what in the hell happened to my motor so I can prevent this mishap in the future.

[michaelovitch]

I suggest you to heat up your biodiesel if you run 100 % of it.
it will allow you to be near the viscosity of the diesel fuel even in winter with a "standard" tune (0.95 or more for sure) for your injection pump.


the injectors must open at bigger pressure too if you run biodiesel it's 155 bars stock and i would say at least 10 more bars for biodiesel.


If you want to start with pure biodiesel you should install a heater in the intake line of the pump or reduce the percentage of biodiesel (so to make a mix with fuel) to reduce the viscosity.


the viscosity is very important !

the VE pumps are very strong but are designed to run with diesel fuel not vegetable oil :p
they can break quite easily in winter.


viscosity create more stress on the moving parts and crappy atomization in the pre chambers and glowplugs break because of the localized stress during the bad combustion (don't forget the combustion starts in the prechamber where the glowplug is.

you always will have problems with biodiesel in winter if not heated up enough.


heat up your fuel in any case.


bad injection pattern create pinging marks on the pistons like on a gas car....the rings don't like it.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv215/michaelovitch/22.jpg

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv215/michaelovitch/21.jpg

[Volvoist]

Looks like few of my pistons...

[v8volvo]

No, no, no.

Please.

It's 2012 and commercial biodiesel has been around for over 10 years now. Guys, come on... the days when this was a new and confusing thing and misinformation was excusable are long over.

Biodiesel is NOT the same as vegetable oil. Biodiesel is a DIRECT DIESEL REPLACEMENT FUEL; the product of a transesterification reaction that leaves it with physical, chemical, and combustive properties absolutely unlike those of vegetable oil; a commercial fuel regulated and certified under ASTM standards, officially recognized as a road fuel for diesel vehicles without need for any modification, sold at gas stations. This is not something you are pulling out of the fryer of a restaurant or sucking out of a grease dumpster. You do NOT need to filter it or heat it -- in fact you absolutely should not, at least not any more than you would want to heat regular diesel. Biodiesel's viscosity at normal temperatures is comparable to that of diesel. In cold temperatures, biodiesel can gel, but that does not present as a viscosity problem -- rather, it presents as a filter plugging problem, the same way that crystallized diesel fuel does at slightly lower temperatures. In cold weather biodiesel is blended with winterized diesel to control the gel point, not heated. Biodiesel is not something for alternative-lifestyle folks now, it is a mainstream fuel that is used by commercial and municipal fleets, like Mike mentioned, and by private individuals who want to just put the fuel in their tank and not think too much about it. Biodiesel is *designed* so that for the most part you can do that.

Biodiesel CANNOT HURT YOUR 25-YEAR-OLD DIESEL ENGINE, it cannot explode your glowplugs and burst your headgasket, it cannot tear up your injection pump, it cannot knock your valves and pistons into each other, it cannot spray shrapnel around in your combustion chambers. It cannot, will not, and did not do any of those things. In fact it had absolutely no role in any of the damage that happened to Mike's engine.

I have used nothing but B99 biodiesel in all of my cars for the last 8 years and I don't know how many miles. That's 2 diesel VW's, and over 10 D24s and D24T's. Never a problem. I have worked in the biofuels industry and have worked on hundreds of other diesel vehicles in my line of work, everything from Mercedes-Benzes to TDI's to Sprinters to Powerstrokes to British London Taxis and more, many of which had used nothing but biodiesel their entire lives. I have seen plenty of good, bad, and ugly, but I have never seen or known of any engine failure related to biodiesel use. The reason is that it is strictly, causally impossible for it to have that kind of effect.

Many of the longevity and engine damage concerns that have been raised here are true with respect to SVO use. Biodiesel is *not* SVO and its usage is completely different. Go online and read all about it. We are living in the second decade of the 21st century and a large proportion of the diesel fuel in this country is now sold with at least 2% biodiesel in it. It's a good time for diesel drivers, even those who never use high percentage biodiesel blends, to get some understanding about what biodiesel is and isn't, and what it does and doesn't do.

So in this case, no, the biodiesel did not hurt your engine and no, it could not have even contributed to its demise. Whatever happened, it was going to happen just the same if you had had diesel in the tank instead. You don't need to worry about running it in your other diesels, and you don't need to worry about its having been part of whatever caused the problem. Let's all move out of the dark ages on this and be done with it before we embarrass ourselves.

Now.... if you had some kind of other fuel problem, such as a clogged/ruptured fuel filter, water in the fuel, etc, that could have been part of the story, especially if it caused the injection timing to run out of whack. Still doubt it, but since the circumstances of your problem are so odd and hard to understand, it is worth thinking about.... How long had it been since the last filter change, or water drain?

[michaelovitch]

hahaha very nice and true !

sorry if i 've confused :o

We have no biodiesel here it's forbiden by the law because can't be taxed as a petrol derivated product.

the same for vegetable oil.

little or local business doing that do not exist.



In any case the piston you saw ran only with diesel fuel from the service station.

the bad injection spray pattern did what you can see.
like the cold start device giving too much advance all the time.

the bad viscosity do that because the diesel is not sprayed but make drips wich can't burn easily and create very high pressure spots.
it's like pinging on a gas engine.

you need to readjust all parameters.


The "normal" diesel fuel is heated and cooled here on the cars : the good density and viscosity is necessary to control the quality of the combustion :

all the idi diesel from peugeot citroen range rover have electric fuel heaters and heat exchangers to heat up the fuel.

and nowadays on direct injection diesel there are fuel heaters and coolers for the same reason and because the fuel need to be cooled its at very high temp in the very high injection system (1500 to 2000 bars).

i want to stress on the fact a good fuel injection system is the key whatever the fuel you use.

you must control the viscosity injection time and vaporization because the properties change from one fuel to an other.

[ian2000t]

I have to say - very well said. On the veg oil forum they laugh about these stories of Bio-diesel exploding engines, or killing cats! It is intended to be a direct replacement for pump diesel, and can be used in cars that straight veg oil cannot (common rail, direct injection, etc).

What Michaelovitch is saying can be true of Vegetable Oil, unheated (which is what I run, but I am fully aware of the risks and will be heating it).

This whole topic got me a little bit worried though, as I have been running blends of up to 90% veg oil unheated with 10% unleaded all through this winter (with temps down to -8C). And it did get me thinking... IF biodiesel CAN do this... what can Veg Oil do??

So, I (for fun... and we all know what a fun job it is...) took all 6 of my glowplugs out last night to look for any signs of burning/melting/disinterating and check they are all still "glowing".

The first 4 are NGK's and were fitted to the car when I bought it 12 months ago - don't know how long they've been in there. The last 2 are Beru ones that I fitted about 8 months ago. They all look perfect, and all glow absolutely fine:

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m144/ian2000t/Volvo/IMAG0146.jpg

Sorry about the crap picture, my phone takes awful pictures up close...! So, proof that even running unheated veg oil for the last 7 months including cold starts in winter temps doesn't eat glowplugs, or cause world hunger! ;)

[Volvoist]

I agree with George., and I suspected as much. I do think that something was wrong with my injectors. I was never happy with them after having them rebuilt with Bosch nozzles. That said, they were 1982 spec nozzles/injectors in a 1984. Apparently Bosch changed the p/n's for 1984. Why? I do not know. Did this cause my issue? I doubt it. I changed my filter ~2500 miles ago with an OE Volvo filter. I cut the old one open after a running issue I had, and it looked like brand new. I could see plenty of light through it, so I do not think it was clogged. I am still using biodiesel in my wifes Jeep Liberty CRD with no trouble, and plan to use it in this Volvo if I fix/keep it and will certainly do so in the 764TD I am picking up.

[ian2000t]

Was it turbo or NA?

I'm sure I read the early non-turbo cars were DN0SD193, and the later and turbo models were DN0SD293. Many on here are trying the GTD style nozzles DN0SD273, but the Monark version (as I have in my car).

I could imagine if you have added a turbo to an NA engine and are running the old DN0SD193 nozzles at the original pressures (NA run lower pop pressures), then you might not be getting correct atomisation which could cause your issue. I think because of the extra pressure in the cylinder from the turbo, a higher pressure is required from the injector to atomise.

[Volvoist]

No, it was completely stock, non turbo D24 in a 1984 244. As per Bosch's catalog, there are different nozzles/injector p/n's.

[anders]

Well I for one have had issues with Biodiesel NOT talking about WVO. I maintain a fleet of equipment and trucks for a small government agency. I did not have any issues with the biodiesel "killing" the engines as it ran just perfect as diesel would. We ran B99 from two different suppliers. The last supplier is a large company that is well known in the Puget sound area. The problems we ran into where that it would gel at mild temps. The company told us that the b99 was safe down to 20 degrees before it would start to gel. We ran B99 through spring and summer but when fall came around and one morning when it was about 31 degrees outside or so every diesel truck and piece of equipment in the fleet would not run. I looked in the tank of one of the dump trucks and it looked like butter:mad:. And to make matters worse the B99 did not blend well with regular diesel. I would think that all the problems have been worked out with biodiesel now. This had happened in 2007, that was the last time we ran biodiesel.
V8volvo- You seem to be well informed on this biodiesel, so at what point does the B99 gel at? Was that bad chemistry for the B99 we had or was the guy that told us that it was safe to 20 degrees full of it?

[ian2000t]

Very odd then. Don't suppose you had an EGT gauge? Mind you, if you were running too much fuel, I'd imagine you'd be getting a LOT of black smoke for damaging levels of EGT.

[Volvoist]

Nope, no EGT gauge. No black smoke, or really any smoke for that matter. Was a very clean running D24.

As for gelling, I think it depends on what the biodiesel is made out of. Different oils gel at different temperatures, right? Mine would cloud up around 25ºF and gel around 18ºF roughly. I was careful. I'd keep it in my garage with a heater on very cold nights or run some amount of diesel in the tank along with some PS white bottle anti-gel. Never had any issue.

[ian2000t]

V8volvo- You seem to be well informed on this biodiesel, so at what point does the B99 gel at? Was that bad chemistry for the B99 we had or was the guy that told us that it was safe to 20 degrees full of it?

I believe it is down to whatever the Biodiesel is made out of. Bio based on Rapseed will have the lowest gel point, and should be liquid at temps below 0C, maybe lower. Soy and Sunflower have slightly higher gel points but I would think should still be liquid 0-10C! There are a lot of home-brew bio makers here in UK (check http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk) and most of those run it all year round (including minus temps blended with winteriser, pump diesel, or even unleaded) - bear in mind that here in UK we are VERY lucky to get brief temps of 30C. If the Bio is made with Palm Oil that could explain it - Palm Oil is solid at room temps, so creates a Bio that gels at higher temps.... BUT, I believe if made well it's Bio should still be liquid at 10C? Maybe just a bad batch with soaps/HMPE's?

Edit - are you talking degrees C or degrees F?

[anders]

My previous post was in Fahrenheit. So around 0 Degrees Celsius it was butter.

[RedArrow]

Ian2000t, I`ve read it somewhere on another forum (vegetableoildiesel.co.uk) that you were hunting for the best glow plugs for your `90 760 diesel.
NY Winter is approaching, I have no issues at all but It`s good to have spares... (but I didn`t know that Eb@y has that many fakes advertised.)
Which ones did you end up choosing? (I can see their part numbers are not the same.):
A,
http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/glow-plugs/glow-plugs-bosch-0250201046-glp085.html
B,
http://www.gsparkplug.com/shop/glow-plugs/bosch-0-250-201-032.html

In another thread 745TG suggested using Duraterm plugs, general info here
http://www.boschautoparts.com/BAP_Technical_Resources%2FDiesel%20Parts%2F201232_ GlowPlugTechGd08.pdf

[jpliddy]

hi all just changed front 3 plugs on my D24 as been in 5 years i will l change the back 3
as soon as i get a nice dry day here in staffordshire /England .
it may be a bit more tricky being 5 years older now . done it 3 times over the last 20 years of ownership . just need some sun and plenty of tea served up!!!!
im using the bosch brand this time . with a smear of copper grease on the threads .do you agree ?

[RedArrow]

Bosch Duratherm (or spelled Duraterm?) 80010 is the best glowplug for these.

It is hard to do only for the very first time, even with good tea served :) but later many dieselbrickers manage relatively quickly with all 6... only after `learning` what exact kind of (btw simple) tools to have.



A few small but important things come to my mind.

Be careful to not use too much of the antiseize on the glowplug threads.
Do not overtighten the glowplugs into the head.
Maybe redo the insulation on the old buss bars that connect the plugs.
Try to not disturb the fuel hard lines at all.
Maybe use new nuts for the glowplugs.
Don`t plug the holes with anything as you may forget it in the glowplug holes or it could fall in.
TEST the plugs before installing them, they should `light up` within 5-7seconds and glow completely red within 9secs at the max esp in UK weather :).
Use any kind of random two pieces of wires you may find (proper gauge) and test your new glowplugs away from the car on any 12v battery, one by one. Nothing is worse than doing stuff twice due to a small mistake or a factory failure in a plug. The whole World is made in Ch.na. :)

Prepare as many different types, sizes, and shapes of 8mm wrenches and various sockets for the job to make it `easy` (easier). :)
Some flexy etc tricky wrench gadgets make it easy. I recall sizes of 10, 11 and 12 mm tools.

Keep the buss bar on the rearest glowplug but do loosen the outer nut on it first. Use loose buss bar to fish the #6 glowplug out and through.

Good time to check the wiring that goes to the rear of the head, as well. On my engines it was usually a brown wire. It monitors temps over there and triggers a fulltime glow if it thinks the engine isnt warm enough. Not so good for the glowplug system if it slippes off. On some cars, this wire had slipped off from that pin on the rear of the cyl head, so it is a good idea to check it... especially because you will be tinkering near there anyway.. for quite some time:)

[jpliddy]

thanks for the advice Red Arrow .im got the glow plugs months ago not expensive
but the code on box reads DURA TERM , 002 then 0 250 201 032-EAF
so will have to use them . i too have managed this job with out removing any fuel lines . but i did remove the intercooler pipE and EGR VALVE and pipes when i tackled no 5 and 6 , plugs i got a thick carpet and climbed onto of engine to get comfortable . no rushing . . the more advice the better for this job .
ive been noticing a good puff of smoke on start up but its gone within seconds
using less than a litre of oil at 5000 mile oil change . some one here said that is acceptable ,!