PDA

View Full Version : What turbo are you using????


anders
10-20-2011, 12:58 PM
I'm looking to buy a new turbo for my d24t project. So looking at compressor maps and my calculations looks to me the best option is a T3 48AR hot side with 60 trim compressor. It is a straight T3. Planning on going ball bearing to help spool.. I'm shooting for 150-160hp at 25psi with large intercooler.

Jason
10-21-2011, 04:02 AM
I wouldn't waste the money on ball bearing, thats not going to make much difference and is a huge price increase. The .48 A/R T3 side will spool nicely, though I would go with a T4 compressor with a 50-52mm inducer. You could go straight T-3 but the larger compressor will move more air and do it at a lower temp. You wont need 25psi to clean up the fuel for 150ish hp. 20 will probably do it. I'm running a .63 A/R hot side on my turbo, which makes it slightly soggy down at lower rpms but keeps the drive pressure down and I think is easier on the engine if your running it hard like I do. I can still make full boost by around 2500rpm though. Remember these engines don't like to make a bunch of boost down low with heavy fueling, they tend to bend rods, though at 150hp that shouldn't be an issue.

Jason

anders
01-26-2012, 07:41 AM
Here is my opinion on the turbo that I installed on my 244. I installed a Turbonetics T3 super 60 compressor with 48 turbine housing and F49 wheel. I did several calculations and looking at compressor charts the super 60 was the best match for 180 hp. I picked the 48 AR because I still wanted it too spool fairly soon and wanted it to flow better then the stock 36 ar. I ran the turbo on stock fuel settings and .95 timing. Turbo spools up right off 1000 rpm and had 7 psi @ 2000. I turned up the fuel screw 1/2 turn and have injection timing at .85, It will have 5psi at 1600 and 10psi at 2000. I have no wastegate so I'm not going crazy on the fuel setting. I did a pull in 4th gear on a long hill and built 25psi at 2700 (850 EGT) and climbing before the rear cap blew off my intake. I'm very happy with the turbo. Oh ya, almost forgot.. Those numbers are with the stock 240 diesel exhaust that has 2" piping and two mufflers, very restrictive. It should spool very well with little more fuel and good exhaust.

ian2000t
02-21-2012, 01:03 AM
Wow, that spools much lower than mine! Harder to tell with mine i suppose as its an auto and the revs rise as the turbo spools more, but still i'll only get 5psi around 2000.

I really don't understand the different components to a turbo either so all of you talk of hotside and t4 compressors etc have gone straight over my head!

J_Lanttola
02-21-2012, 02:21 AM
I have a holset hx35 with a 12# turbine housing, 60mm turbine wheel, and a 54mm compressor wheel.
15psi comes around 2900rpm, and after that it really kicks in. just a little over 3000rpm i have 30psi and the engine revs over 5500rpm (6000rpm according to the original tachometer).
In the dyno it made 267hp, but i haven't checked the egt or the drive pressure yet.

pgringo
03-04-2012, 06:22 PM
how about holset vs. vnt (or vgt) or whatever you want to call them?

i'm asking for my project car that will be a weekend fun car, not a daily driver.

anders
03-05-2012, 07:02 AM
I think the next turbo I would try is a T3/T4 hybrid with .63 hot side with the F1-57 wheel, with a T40E compressor housing 46 trim in a ball bearing package. I think the drive pressure would be low and would still boost fairly quick.

michaelovitch
03-06-2012, 07:23 AM
how about holset vs. vnt (or vgt) or whatever you want to call them?

i'm asking for my project car that will be a weekend fun car, not a daily driver.

As i know a vgt spool a way sooner at lower rpm but need an actuator to move the specific mechanism.
electrical mechanical vacuum operated whatever it is it must be piloted.

you could use the throttle thing where the cable is attached, there is an empty cable emplacement.

i've thought to a vgt yet that's seems a good idea.

ian2000t
03-07-2012, 03:09 AM
I've been reading up about VGT/VNT turbos, and apart from the vanes sticking they seem a very good idea - obviously why in a modern TDI you hear them spool up as soon as they pull away.

I always feel my D24T is starved of air a bit at low revs, and would be a bit more efficient with a few psi at 1500-ish revs.

Apart from the vacuum device to switch the turbo from "small to large", would it be easy to fit one to a D24T? Maybe from a VW TDi (PD 130)? Or would the flanges on the turbo all need modification?

michaelovitch
03-07-2012, 04:23 AM
Even if you can adapt them quite easily ,they are very small and the flanges are quite simple to do, you will not have an adapted turbo from a 1.9 l engine.

they spool very soon but the turbine and compressor sides are tiny and built to be very responsive only.
they are "out of breath" quite soon wich is not the case of a d24.

1.9 run on torque that's why they have a 6 speed gearbox :)

the d24 is a 2.4 liters that's mean 500 cc bigger and as a 6 cyl (i mean strucuraly) has normally not a big torque on the low rpm.

vgt is a very good idea but a bigger turbo is needed imo like one from a v6 tdi for ex

anders
03-08-2012, 06:08 AM
Has any one else done the math for turbo sizing? I want to see what somebody else came up with. I did some math for 200HP@ 5000RPM and needed 25 lbs/min with a pressure ratio of 2.2. ( that maps great on a TO4E housing 40 or 46 trim)

I have seen some VGT turbo's controlled mechanically from boost pressure.

michaelovitch
03-08-2012, 06:19 AM
You don't have 30 billions answers.

If you did the math for your specific goal you're good.:D

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/choosing_turbo

Did you try this method ?


200 hp ?
do you plan to use it as a daily driver ?

May i suggest you to work on the head too.

you have quite a potential in this head work :)

anders
03-08-2012, 07:03 AM
Well there will be many outcomes depending on intake temp, BSFC (could not get the specific on this motor) and VE ( not sure of the specific on this motor either). Just looking to see what others came up with and what they plugged in:)
Does any body know the BSFC and VE of the D24T?

anders
03-08-2012, 11:33 AM
Oh... as for a daily driver, no. I was thinking a 242 for autocross and 1/4 mile fun.

michaelovitch
03-08-2012, 12:12 PM
About the VE

http://www.scribd.com/michaelovitch/d/19099617-Bosch-Ve-Pumps

a VE give max 25 kw per cylinder or 34 hp about 200 for a d24.....

the pump on a tic with a manual gearbox is a EP-VE 6-10 f2400 L tic 2

i don't know this engine specific bsfc (i 'm searching) but you will not be able to do 200 hp with stock components (like injectors)

anders
03-08-2012, 02:13 PM
VE: Volumetric Efficiency. Most modern Direct injected turbocharged diesels have a VE of 98%. I think the D24T might be around 88%-92%. I'm not sure.

michaelovitch
03-09-2012, 12:50 AM
VE: Volumetric Efficiency. Most modern Direct injected turbocharged diesels have a VE of 98%. I think the D24T might be around 88%-92%. I'm not sure.

ok.

i thought you wanted the pump model to see what quantity of fuel it was able to deliver for the bsfc

i'm just thinking you can measure it with too rotating the pump out the engine with injectors on it.

you will have the bsfc.

just add compressed air to the hose of the pump:D

about the volumetric efficiency i think it's more the fact it's a two valve non cross flow head (i don't know how it's called) wich will determine the VE

you can improve it "easily" by porting the head:cool:

J_Lanttola
03-11-2012, 11:57 PM
About the VE

http://www.scribd.com/michaelovitch/d/19099617-Bosch-Ve-Pumps

a VE give max 25 kw per cylinder or 34 hp about 200 for a d24.....

the pump on a tic with a manual gearbox is a EP-VE 6-10 f2400 L tic 2

i don't know this engine specific bsfc (i 'm searching) but you will not be able to do 200 hp with stock components (like injectors)


Is that with a 10mm rotor? I got 267hp with a built pump with 12mm rotor and stock injectors :) The pump was built by a diesel tuning shop but i don't know what they have done to it, and i think they aren't very eager to reveal their secrets..

I just went and bought my turbo based on guessing, so i didn't make much calculating :D Seems to work fine to me, except it could spool a bit quicker. with a smaller hot side it may spool quicker but on the other hand the drive pressure would increase.

And the car is a daily driver :)

michaelovitch
03-12-2012, 01:58 AM
Yes stock.
official max power with the way it has been thought and built on the bosch papers.

Like you wrote, If you modify something ,you can't make calculations anymore to have an theorical accurate result.

Except if you have new datas of each modified component before to choose the turbo.

I'm curious to see your car :)

Have you got a video ?