244 is ALIVE!

[Volvoist]

Update on my 244 project. I got it running last Saturday by pulling it down PA-120 with my 242 gasser. It started pretty much right up and I drove it a mile into Westport and turned around. When I got back, the road was still fogged with smoke. My poor wife who was pulling me with the 242, then followed me after it started said she had to put it on recirculate because smoke was coming in the vents (haha). I warmed it up and added BG109, let it run a half hour and dumped the oil (which was fresh the night before), then adding Mobil 1 5w30. It seems to run OK and my injection pump reseal was successful. It does have a lot of blowby and has a slight miss on idle. I suspect a stuck (or, I hope not) a broken ring. It seems to be running better and better, but I had only put 22 miles on it. It started at 8ºF Sunday morning, but it took a few tries. Not sure if I should drive it for a bit to see if it gets better or if I am going to do more damage that way if, in fact, it does have a broken ring. Pictures of the 242 hooked to the 244 diesel to follow....

[Jason]

I bet that oil came out real nasty after the 109 was in there. If you ran that, I doubt you have any stuck rings. Its possible, but they are probably worn and or broke. It wouldn't hurt to pop test the injectors and see how they are doing. Check for loose ones, or injetors that are firing around the heat shield. I have had that happen with new heat shields that weren't stamped correctly, and didn't crush when the injector was tightened down. The engine would miss at idle and low rpms. When you take the injector out, the entire tip would be black, rather than just the area the size of the small hole in the shield.

Jason

[Volvoist]

It was pretty nasty. I did pull the valve cover again after the 109 because I did not seat the gasket right and it leaked. Upon removing it, I noticed how clean that stuff got the motor. The blowby has me concerned though, it is an awful lot. Will it harm it to run it the way it is for a while if in fact it does have a broken ring? Current plan is to yank the motor and replace it with one I am going to rebuild. If that is the case, the plan then is that the 244 motor will be rebuilt and put in Eli's 245.

[Jason]

The engine that i just rebuilt had a few broken rings, and one cylinder with all of them broke that had no compression and wouldn't fire. The car was driven untill that cylinder totally died and it just wouldn't run anymore. That cylinder wasn't in any worse shape than any of the others. Even so, I don't think I would drive it if the engine is that boarderline on being worn out. Might as well just take it apart.

Jason

[Volvoist]

I was hoping to drive it to see if things freed up anymore, plus I wanted to evaluate what else the car needs before tearing out the motor. I know it needs front tires at the very least and the rotors need to be cut or replaced, and I suspect there will be a frozen caliper in the rear.

What kind of rings work well for the D24's? I have heard some bad things about some of the 2-piece design rings, but can't remember what the issue was. Who is a good supplier to get the rings from? I'll be rebuilding 2-D24's in the near future.

[Jason]

The rings I can get are Deves, and are US made. They are pretty pricey though, like 150ish for the set. They are what I used in my engine though, and I know of many guys that have used their rings in race engines that were run very hard and they held up great. I figured I would spend a little more and get something good, but then again I'm running my engine pretty hard. That is also assuming the engine is std bore and doesn't need to be overbored... Which is doubtful. The non turbo's were bad about wearing the cylinders thanks to the carbon build up from burning dirty, and the softer non turbo block.

Jason

[Volvoist]

So I can assume I will need to have it bored out. What brand pistons should I get if thats the case? I am hoping it won't need to be bored, but I suspect the motors I have will need to be bored (that is how my luck goes).

[Jason]

Do a search, there is a link to a parts place that had pistons real cheap, I think Dennis bought a set from them. They were under 100 a piece. As far as I know, the only option is German Kolbenshmidt. From what I understand the chinese ones being sold only fit the 1.6 diesel because of the oil squirter notch location. I would highly doubt the block doesn't need to be bored. I would just plan on it.

Jason

[casioqv]

Many of the Kolbenshmidt pistons are too short, and result in an engine with too-low compression, even with the 1-notch head gasket. If you go with the Kolbenshmidts I'd test assemble it and check the piston protrusion, and if they don't come up high enough get the block decked slightly to compensate.

[Jason]

Haven't hear of that problem... As far as I know Dennis got his engine together without problems. Something to look out for though!

Jason

[verdigo]

Many of the Kolbenshmidt pistons are too short, and result in an engine with too-low compression, even with the 1-notch head gasket. If you go with the Kolbenshmidts I'd test assemble it and check the piston protrusion, and if they don't come up high enough get the block decked slightly to compensate.

My Kolbenshmidts are on the short side. They are right on the lower limit for a 1-notch gasket. (.026in)(.67mm). I have not found a source other than Volvo for the gasket as yet.
Dennis

[Volvoist]

My Kolbenshmidts are on the short side. They are right on the lower limit for a 1-notch gasket. (.026in)(.67mm). I have not found a source other than Volvo for the gasket as yet.
Dennis
I am *hoping* that one of the 4 engines I have can be simply re-ringed. We will soon find out. I got the lower end gasket kits today that i found on ebay. I bought all 3 and with shipping it was still cheaper than one kit elsewhere. I have 2-D24's that will see a rebuild.

[casioqv]

Dennis- you might want to talk to Tom Bryant about this, he's had some luck experimenting with removing layers from the 1 notch gaskets to compensate for shorter pistons. Tasca auto parts sells the MLS gaskets.

I tried this on my old '84 760 with Kolbenshmidts, but apparently the gasket blew for the next owner (although I don't know the circumstances) and was sold to another list member on here. It did run significantly better after installing the super thin gasket, but this was mostly because it had a far too thick (3 notch) gasket on it when I purchased it.

With pistons that short, your engine will run OK with the 1-notch gasket but will never quite have the power level or cold starting ability it was designed to have. With a 1 notch gasket you'll have 1.5-.67=0.83mm (0.0327") piston to head clearance which is a ton considering this:

Use the thinnest headgasket you can get away with. Shoot for 0.019" piston-to-head clearance, and don't allow anything more than 0.021". The absolute minimum you can get away with is 0.017".

The green book specs however call for not going below 0.023".

[verdigo]

Very good info, but I am at a point where it wouldn't be a lot of trouble to trim the block a tad. I need to get some more precise measurements. I just used a straight edge and feeler gage to check but I am reasonably sure of the .026 in measurement. What are the specs for the MLS gaskets? Worse yet is I think I know why the Caddy is so clacky now.

[casioqv]

The MLS gaskets have DIFFERENT THICKNESS THAN (fixed) the fiber ones of the same number of notches.

//edit: I'd bet you could make a reasonably accurate replica of the factory piston height tool from a block of hardwood and a dial gauge.

[Volvoist]

Got my spare engine apart this afternoon. It suffered a broken timing belt at some point (was pulled when I got it). It was *supposedely* in an 84 245, however, upon taking it apart, it has the early head and early block unfortunately. Good news is that it is in excellent shape inside. Since I have it out already and there is no detectable ridge in any of the cylinders, I am simply going to hone it and put standard rings in it and get the head fixed. It seems 5 valves leak when I spray WD-40 in the intake/exhaust ports with the cam removed (was broken in 3 places). The head gasket was a Goetze 3-notch gasket, so I suspect it had been replaced. It measured 1.7 mm, so it is a 3-notch. I will likely go with a MLS gasket from Volvo for the replacement. The engine will go into my 82 244 until this motor dies, and then I will rebuild the original motor that is coming out of the 244, so the fact that it is an early engine does not bother me much.
I will keep everyone posted!

[casioqv]

Correction: According to a post on the e-mail list, the MLS gaskets do not measure the same thickness as the fiber ones, and are indeed thinner. The advice in my previous post is therefore erroneous and potentially dangerous if someone were to shoot for a very tight piston to head clearance, and assume fiber gasket thicknesses.