E85 injection?

[HetLaeN]

hello,

i am using the D24TIC in tractorpulling, and in the competive class the rules says you can only use Diesel or Petrol, not methanol. And therefore it is not allowed to use methanol injection. But those who run on petrol started using E85 and say it is petrol with methanol, in my opinion it is methanol with petrol in and should not be allowed, but it is.

Anyway, i was thinking of injecting E85, like done with methanol. Maybe do a 50/50 water/E85 or something?

For those who don't know what E85 is, it is 85% methanol and 15% petrol.

I want to do the injection as this: http://d24t.com/showthread.php?128-DIY-water-alcohol-injection-setup!

I know i have a intercooler that will stop some of that is injected. The goal will be to cool down the turbo and the pipe between turbo and intercooler, because today those are the hottest parts on the air pipes/manifold.

Is there a reason why should not do this? :)

[Jason]

No, don't do it. Thats like injecting fuel directly into the engine untimed... It will try to run away or cause horrible knock. Water/meth injection is only part meth and used for intercooling purposes. E85 is way too much meth and you don't want to be injecting any regular fuel at all. I would think about getting a bigger intercooler, larger more effecient turbo compressor, or something of that nature if they wont let you run a water/meth injection setup. FYI, the windshield washer fluid is only 10 or 15% meth, nothing over the top... Mostly water.
Jason

[HetLaeN]

we will start using only water, and after a time go over to a mix and at the end using the highest % of meth we feel comfortable:)

[heavyequipment]

E85 is 15% gasoline and 85% ethanol, not methanol. I don't know how much difference that would make to your system. I don't think a little gasoline will hurt anything. Gasoline has less energy per weight than diesel.

Also, keep in mind that tap water has minerals in it. You probably don't want limestone forming inside your turbo or cylinders!

Water injection has been around for a long time, especially in aviation. There should be a lot of literatue about it online.

This is a very interesting experiment.

[HetLaeN]

thanks for the correction! :)

the only difference between methanol and ethanol is that ethanol is drinkable, that is what i have heard at least.

Can i treat the tap water in any way to get it mineral free?

[heavyequipment]

Ethanol is drinkable, but not with 15% gasoline! It might have more energy/weight than methanol, and is not as likely to damage rubber or plastic parts.

You can use distilled water from a grocery store, rainwater, or water purified by reverse osmosis. RO purifiers are available and not too expensive. I'd go with the rainwater or grocery store water until you're sure you want to continue the water injection.

[Jason]

Duh! I didn't notice you said methenol. Either way, you don't want a high % of it, and I definently wouldn't inject any amount of gasoline into the intake. The main function of the injection is to reduce intake charge temp and exhaust temp, so you can hopefully inject more fuel. However if your pump is maxed out already, and your egts are within check, you probably aren't going to gain much. I saw the pics in your other thread, the intercooler looks pretty good size, I would think it should be pretty effecient. Just for the record, I haven't heard of minerals in water causing a problem with a turbo or in the engine, its normally such a small amount for a short time it cant really build up... Maybe if you had some crazy high mineral content. I wouldn't really worry about that though. I would just be very carefull about the injection amount with the E85, too much could easily crack a piston.

Jason

[HetLaeN]

yes indeed the intercooler is doing its job, but it is really hot before the intercooler, so if the temperature before the intercooler can be lowered, i think the intercooler could do a even better job.

But the engine is horrible right now, it comes some exhaust out of the cam ventilation (that is directly translated from norwegian, hope you understand), so now in the winter we are going to take a service and some rebuild :) i could make a thread about the project if some are interrested in that?

[Jason]

Sure, post up a build thread... Everyone loves to see another one getting done! I guess you mean it has alot of blow-by comming out of the vent on the valve cover? The rings are probably worn out. I think you said 6 or 7 years of running it with 60ish lbs of boost with a 12mm pump head? Thats a good service life for those rings or the engine for that matter in that type of application. Its obviously run pretty hard.

Jason

[HetLaeN]

Sure, post up a build thread... Everyone loves to see another one getting done!
Will do;)

I guess you mean it has alot of blow-by comming out of the vent on the valve cover? The rings are probably worn out.
I think 2 or more cylinders have that problem...

I think you said 6 or 7 years of running it with 60ish lbs of boost with a 12mm pump head?
That is correct, there is maybe 4-5 events in a year, plus 1 or 2 practice days. And at each event we run 3-4 pulls.

Thats a good service life for those rings or the engine for that matter in that type of application. Its obviously run pretty hard.
4 bars/58 psi of boost is pretty hard :P But the problem is that the boost gauge don't measure higher than 4 bars, so it could be more... Anyway it is an incredible engine to hold like that.