Anyone running used veg oil?

[Jason]

I finnaly found a source for good waste veg oil, the happy wok just down the street! I have had a filtration system built for about a year collecting dust in my garage as the first hookup I thought I had for oil fell through. Just wondering if anyone is running it in their Volvo or other diesel? Are you blending it or running a two tank system? I was going to blend for the simplicity of not screwing around with the car and two tanks, but with all the different "blends" people do, its kinda hard to nail one formula down that will work for sure. Any info or experience would be great.

Jason

[77volvo245]

I make Boidiesel and run 100% it in my D24. I have close to 1000 gallons of WVO waiting to be process. I bought a Fuel Mister for a good price, and now building a new processor so that I can make 100 gallons in one batch instead of 40 gallons with the Mister. I'm going to sell the fuel Mister soon. Since Oregon is full of hippie's there are many fuel stations you can pick up B99 for a good price. The bad part of that when winter comes they only sell B20 until it warms up again. I've ran B100 in the winter with no problems. I had no problems besides the return lines to the injectors. I need to replace it with viton in the near future.

This might help

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751

[Jason]

I'm already a member of the forum over there. I did some research on making bio, but for me its just too much of a pain with the testing, getting chemicals, etc.. I'm really thinking blending will be the way to go for simplicity.

Jason

[EvoStevo]

My plan is to eventually run a two-tank system with WVO. I have one iffy source for grease and two other solid prospects that only use soy oil. I want to build an appleseed reactor to make the dewatering process go a little quicker. Info here: http://www.southerngrease.com/dewaterfilter_ver2.htm

The veg conversion has been put on hold until I get a better motor in here and I learn how to completely service the fuel system myself.

[Jason]

I may still do that, I'm looking into some of the parts needed. I am worried about the other tank being a mess, having to mount it in the trunk, etc. Also, I'm looking for a source for the valve that would switch between regular diesel and the wvo. It would need to accept both the inlet and the return, and close both off when switching to the other fuel source, so the return from the IP would go to the correct tank of fuel being run on. I was thinking a tank selector valve for a ford pickup that had dual tanks like the F150s from the early and mid 90's. I know they are available as part of a kit, but I can set up the system myself with the exception of that valve.

Jason

[oregon101]

I am running WVO and other waste products in my 89 F250. It has a dual tanks from the factory. I have been doing this for almost two years with no problems.:)

[Jason]

Ya too bad the volvo didn't come with dual tanks to begin with!

Jason

[oregon101]

I have seen people mount the small 5 gallon gas tanks used in small boats as the second tank on many cars. Maybe mount one in the front of the trunk or under the hood on the drivers side? I plan on running WVO in my Volvo and these are the options I am looking at.

[Jason]

That would be nice up there for the heat as well. I suppose you could move the battery and gain even more space. I think doing the trunk mounting would be easiest though, stuff the tank up front towards the seat and still have a decent amount of trunk space. I was thinking about using a 8 gallon poly tank thats tube shaped. We sell them at work for gas tanks for dune buggies.

Jason

[myselfnjit]

I have been running a two tank system in my 86 740 TD wagon for 2 years and will answer any questions you have. I have learned a lot.

Steve

[Jason]

Well, my main question is this: what did you use for a valve to switch between fuel sources and where did you get it? What kind of difference have you noticed when running straight veg oil as far as mileage and performance are concerned?

Jason

[Jason]

Any other insight or tips you have would be great too. I have the filtration system already set up and working, and have started filtering oil already. I have a source of water free pretty clean oil from the local happy wok, I get 5 gallons a week, so I thought I would start collecting and filtering ahead of time.

Jason

[jbg]

Ya too bad the volvo didn't come with dual tanks to begin with!

Jason

I too echo your thoughts Jason. I do see in my Vadis software a section for an additional fuel tank system. I could take a screen shot if anyone wanted to see it.

[myselfnjit]

Any other insight or tips you have would be great too. I have the filtration system already set up and working, and have started filtering oil already. I have a source of water free pretty clean oil from the local happy wok, I get 5 gallons a week, so I thought I would start collecting and filtering ahead of time.

Jason

OK well...

First off, I believe that proper filtering and dewatering is half of the conversion.

I pick up in 5 gallon buckets or oil jugs, screen through a 400-200-100 micron bucket screen. Put in 55 gallon drum where I heat to 150 and then let SLOWLY cool over a period of days, settle for as long as I can, like a couple of weeks. Hot pan test for water, then gravity filter into a second drum through 50-25-10-5 micron bags. Then pump into cubies for storage and portable filling.

My car is a two tank conversion. I have a hot fox in the tank, coolant heated jacket for the veg only veg filter, hose-on-hose (dont trust HIH) run in the drainage channel under the drivers side doors so the hose is not exposed to the outside at all, arctic fox FPHE in the engine bay, Vegtherm in the engine bay run on a separate switch so I can turn it on and off as I feel needed.
My weak spot is the valve. I have a 6 port pollack but that does return a tiny bit of veg to the diesel tank on every switch back to diesel so I run the diesel tank almost empty every now and again to purge it and I keep it nice and full of Diesel in the NY winters. I have two 3 way switches from greasecar ready to go in if I find the time to fix this issue. I have been running it for 2 years this way but it should be changed some day.

Car does great, I currently have 1128 miles on only half a tank of diesel being used:)

Steve

[myselfnjit]

Well, my main question is this: what did you use for a valve to switch between fuel sources and where did you get it? What kind of difference have you noticed when running straight veg oil as far as mileage and performance are concerned?

Jason


Sorry, I didnt really answer these.

The 6 port came from Autozone but if I were you, get a couple of 3 ports so you dont have the veg-diesel pollution issue.

Also, I seem to see very similar mileage as with diesel and I dont notice a power diff at all but the wagon is pretty slow on the draw when compared to the TDI anyhow:D

[Jason]

Thanks for the info! My oil is water free (thankfully) since they dump in right into 5 gallon pails and seal it for me right when its pumped out of the fryer while still hot. I have a two 55 gallon barrel system, with one barrel for settling and filtration, and the second barrel is the holding tank with barrel pump. I have a pump that circulates the oil through two filters to progressively filter it from 25 microns and then 5 microns. After settling its filtered for enough time to (hopefully) ensure all the oil has passed through the filters two or three times, then I switch a valve and it runs through the filters one final time and is dumped into the holding tank. On the final pass, I restrict the volume of oil after the pump so it goes through slowly, probably a gallon per minute or so.

What do you mean by 6 port or 3 port? Is that a switching valve autozone carries that is factory for some car?

Jason

[myselfnjit]

Thanks for the info! My oil is water free (thankfully) since they dump in right into 5 gallon pails and seal it for me right when its pumped out of the fryer while still hot. I have a two 55 gallon barrel system, with one barrel for settling and filtration, and the second barrel is the holding tank with barrel pump. I have a pump that circulates the oil through two filters to progressively filter it from 25 microns and then 5 microns. After settling its filtered for enough time to (hopefully) ensure all the oil has passed through the filters two or three times, then I switch a valve and it runs through the filters one final time and is dumped into the holding tank. On the final pass, I restrict the volume of oil after the pump so it goes through slowly, probably a gallon per minute or so.

What do you mean by 6 port or 3 port? Is that a switching valve autozone carries that is factory for some car?

Jason

OK well I do a hot pan test with each batch of oil just to make sure it is water free, it is easy and it gives me confidence.

I plan on buying a centrifuge for my filtering needs when I sell the Volvo, the TDI is a bit more picky and I dont want to risk anything. Properly running a centrifuge will take you down to 1 micron:D

As for valves, I have a diesel send and return at the valve, a veg send and return at the valve and a send and return to the IP. I have it all built into one valve, hence 6 ports.
What I will do to the TDI, and recommend (REALLY) is using two 3 ports valves. One will have the diesel send and veg send and hook to the IP in, the other will have the diesel return, veg return, and hook to the IP return. This way when you switch from veg back to diesel before you shut down, you can purge the return lines back to the veg tank for a few seconds until diesel gets to the veg tank. This assures that you dont empty the little bit of veg that is in the return lines on the injectors into the diesel tank. It is only a little bit but after a while, and in the cold, you will notice it.

Let me know if you have any other questions or if I didnt make enough sense.

[Jason]

That valving is how I wanted to set mine up, but what do the valves come from? As in are they fuel switching valves that are stock for another car? You said they came from autozone, what do you ask for? How are they switched? Is it a manual thing or are they electric?

Jason

[myselfnjit]

That valving is how I wanted to set mine up, but what do the valves come from? As in are they fuel switching valves that are stock for another car? You said they came from autozone, what do you ask for? How are they switched? Is it a manual thing or are they electric?

Jason

The 6 port came from Autozone, but again, dont use it.
The 2 3-ports came from greasecar.com, they are a much better quality and they dont allow for mixing in the diesel tank.

Both are electrically switched.

If you still want to know about the autozone 6 port, I think I can find the aprt number for you.

Steve

[Jason]

I'll check out the grease car website. That will be about the only thing I would actually have to buy, everything else I will set up myself. Thanks for the info.

Jason

[Jason]

I looked into it, and it looks like two for $100. That will be the most expensive part of the conversion as far as I can tell. Looks like it will be worth the investment. I gotta start looking around for a good tank to use, I'm still thinking the poly tank from work, but I like the idea of mounting it up front as well.

Jason

[myselfnjit]

Well I spent some money, but not a ton. I have a round aluminum tank that fits directly into the spare wheel hole so I dont lose any space in the wagon:D


The 6 port is like $60 and they break, the $100 for the 2 3 ports is def the way to go.

I might be able to send some pics of my conversion if you are interested.

[Jason]

Sure, some pics would be great. You should be able to get my email address of my profile on here.

Jason

[EvoStevo]

myselfnjit, did you model your system after someone else's? Like, is there a set of how-to-build-your-own-veg-car instructions floating around the internet or did you just have the knowhow to piece it together yourself? I was just going to buy Greasecar's conversion kit, but I'd definitely be interested in building a setup myself for less money. Plus, I'm not crazy about the tank Greasecar supplies with their 240 kit (it's the same for either sedan or wagon) as there's really nowhere to mount it without it severely obstructing the cargo area.

[myselfnjit]

myselfnjit, did you model your system after someone else's? Like, is there a set of how-to-build-your-own-veg-car instructions floating around the internet or did you just have the knowhow to piece it together yourself? I was just going to buy Greasecar's conversion kit, but I'd definitely be interested in building a setup myself for less money. Plus, I'm not crazy about the tank Greasecar supplies with their 240 kit (it's the same for either sedan or wagon) as there's really nowhere to mount it without it severely obstructing the cargo area.

The car came with a kit installed but the owner stripped the teeth off of the flywheel after only 2k of having it!!

I did a ton of research and thought, looked at other kits and then designed my own to fit the car the best. I got to keep the rear of the wagon, and the hoses are not exposed to the outside for damage, lots of hard work and thought. Here are some pics of the rear, I also just made a video of the entire car inside and out that I will post on YOUTUBE when I can. The car is for sale and I thought that this might help.

I need some money and time for my new project, the TDI!

[myselfnjit]

Sure, some pics would be great. You should be able to get my email address of my profile on here.

Jason

Here are a couple, not great but the vid file will be better when I get a chance.

[myselfnjit]

myselfnjit, did you model your system after someone else's? Like, is there a set of how-to-build-your-own-veg-car instructions floating around the internet or did you just have the knowhow to piece it together yourself? I was just going to buy Greasecar's conversion kit, but I'd definitely be interested in building a setup myself for less money. Plus, I'm not crazy about the tank Greasecar supplies with their 240 kit (it's the same for either sedan or wagon) as there's really nowhere to mount it without it severely obstructing the cargo area.


My tank is def better than the greasecar tank, notice the hotfox heater, it only heats the fuel near and in the fuel pickup, not the whole tank. Also, there are no interior connections to leak coolant into your veg. I also personally dont like HIH, scared of leaks. HOH is just safer and with the FPHE and the vegtherm, heat isnt an issue once the car is up to temp.

I dont think that my setup saved money over a GC kit though. I would have to think about it.

[myselfnjit]

This is my first digital video so I hope it comes out.

It is on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWp4SqOkkp4

If you want to see more or have questions let me know.
Steve

[myselfnjit]

That first video was really blurry because of file size so I made 3 shorter films hoping that they turn out better here they are:

Exterior: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyqJXcVd-RY
Interior: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfDy1hi2dbg
WVO: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgghQdciQEE

[EvoStevo]

Cool videos. Thanks for uploading them. Gave me a lot to think about.

[Jason]

Wow you have major plumbing going on... Thanks for the info and videos though. What are your plans for the TDI? I think you should sell it and keep the volvo. I may be a little bias, but I have also had a late model TDI and the volvo is much more fun for me...

Jason

[myselfnjit]

Wow you have major plumbing going on... Thanks for the info and videos though. What are your plans for the TDI? I think you should sell it and keep the volvo. I may be a little bias, but I have also had a late model TDI and the volvo is much more fun for me...

Jason

Well I dont know where you live but here in NY you can get some pretty cold winters and a few good hot summer days so you need all of your options open. These volvos dont seem to heat up too much so you really have to be smart about your methods.

I plan on converting the TDI as well but the people on TDI forum keep scaring me. I would just make BIO but in the winter it is useless where I am I think, too cold!

[Jason]

I'm in St.Louis, it does get pretty cold here and quite hot in the summer. Nothing like the cold of NY though. I'm from upstate NY, around the Glens Falls/Lake George area. I know what a NY winter is like! You would need all the help you can get. Funny you say that the engine doesn't warm up that fast.. My car is up to temp within a couple minutes of driving when its around 70 degrees outside. Granted I'm sure that will be slower in winter, but it still warms much faster than my TDI ever did.

As for the TDI forum... I don't know what it is about that place. Everyone on there either has something to prove or is just very negative about anything and everything. The main problem with running veg oil in a TDI is that its a direct injected diesel. This is the same problem any late model diesel will have running veg oil or other alternative fuels. If the injector gets a little clogged, or the fuel doesn't atomize very well you can score the cylinder walls and ruin your engine thanks to the fuel hitting the wall instead of being burnt. With the older vw diesels being IDI engines, the burning is in the prechamber and you dont have the same issues with fuels of different consistancy. It may not burn as well if something isn't right but it wont destroy the engine nearly as easily. My advice would be to stick with the older IDI diesels for veg oil. I would take what you hear from the TDI forum with a grain of salt. Its so hard to get good info over there. Everyone thinks they have something better than you or they know more than you. I always felt like I was being talked down to.. No thanks.

Jason

[myselfnjit]

I just dont have the room to park them all. :D
I wasnt saying that the volvo didnt heat up fast enough, just that it isnt a hot runner. The TDI seems to stay warm once it is there and using less fuel will help keep hot fuel, which the TDI does by a LONG shot as compared to the volvo.

[Jason]

I'm not sure what temp the volvo runs at, but there are different thremostats available. When I rebuilt my 1.6 TD in my jetta, there were three different temp t-stats available. Hard to beat the TDI economy though. Still, my car has been getting in the 30's which is pretty damn good for the size/weight of the car!

Jason