Volvo Fan Turning to Devil's Fuel...Mylesofsmyles!

[mylesofsmyles]

Hey All:

Been into Volvo's, not quite a year...my best friend got me stoked last winter, with his 88 745, and later model 744 16v...inspired me to get a 79 242 dl, with the b21f, gasoline na motor. just putting the finishing bits on my b230ft gasoline turbo swap.

On my quest for a daily driver that'll accommodate my 90lbs. dog, I discovered the 245 diesels. Not much info on Turbobricks regarding diesels so i'm here to see if I can't learn a thing or two, or just hang with an eclectic bunch of Volvo owners.

Cheers!

[Jason]

Welcome!

You wont find much love over on turbo bricks for the diesel volvos... Most over there think the diesel engine is a junk pile. That being said, there is lots of other good info over there... They have been receptive to some of my posts with what I've managed to do with my car over the past year or so. Most of the hate is because they don't know much about the engines, they are not volvo but vw. Pretty much two more cylinders stuck on a 1.6 diesel that was found in the rabbits, jettas and golfs from the late 70s, 80s, and early 90s that most people love. Its actually a little more similar to the 5 cylinder 2.0 diesel found in the audi 5000 cars but whatever. Either way, once you go diesel, you don't go back!

Jason

[smokeswagen]

Greetings fellow Volvo dieselians- I am a brand new member and this is my first post. I own and have owned numerous diesel powered vehicles- currently an '84 245 diesel [I've had it about 10 years], a 6.5L diesel 2500 suburban, a GMC 6000 w/ Detroit 4-53, a GMC 7000 w/ 8.2L Detroit, a Clark 6000# forklift w/ 4cyl. Continental dies., a Ford 4400 industrial tractor w/ 3cyl. dies., a 10hp Hatz-powered cement mixer, a 16hp 2 cyl Ruggerini destined to be mounted on a Honda 650 [a project], and a 10hp dies. Chinese-built pressurewasher [shame on me]. So much for my credentials; my 21 year-old son has a 6.5L K-5 blazer [extremely rare], an '86 745 Volvo (the last year a diesel Volvo made it across the pond), and his most recent acquisition- a '97 Passat TDI. In a prior life, I also had a Mercedes 300D and a '91 Mercedes 350SDL; I sold the 300 when it began showing signs of transmission troubles and to my knowledge, the 350 is still my ex's daily driver [go riddance to both!].
It's my personal opinion that European diesels are the best designed and most economical to operate of any on the planet; clearly, in Europe, diesel-power is a way of life. Conversely, the 6.5 GM diesel, for example, is nothing more than a gasoline big-block with different heads, an injector pump, and a nylon plug where the distributor should be. It was "minimumly" engineered merely to placate a specific niche market.
Volvo owners, on the whole, are a generous sort, and freely share their acquired knowledge with their bretheren on sites like this one, Matthews, and Brickboard. And parts suppliers like FCP Groton and Autohaus AZ cater to owner-repairers, and will often offer procedural advice to purchasers. But, having owned 2, I can tell you this is NOT the case with Mercedes; not only does the manufacturer seem to go to great lengths to keep repair procedures and shortcuts secret, I am not aware of any "community based" websites where MeBe owners "help" each other solve their cars' issues. Clearly, if inexperienced and buying used, Mercedes is NOT the car to buy.
Having worked on and driven both a Volvo 245d and a 745 td, let me share my opinions on both. The 240 diesels were built for the economy-minded; only a mere few have things like leather interiors, sunroofs, power windows/locks, and almost all have the M46 5 speed transmission [really, a 4 speed trans with a Leycock-DeNormanville electrically-actuated overdrive unit bolted on where its tailhousing should be. Although the L-DeN overdrive was all over Europe, Volvos were the only cars to "cross the pond" with them]. The car itself is NOT a fast (or even moderate) accelerator, emits a fair amount of smoke (especially during hard acceleration), but it is fun to drive. The powertrain is not difficult to work on and I have adjusted valves, rebuilt the injector pump, changed the clutch, changed the frictions in the overdrive unit [its like a mini auotmatic tranny- uses Dexron], set timing, changed water pump, glow plugs, etc. I scoured the 'net and found websites like this one, to learn what I needed to know to be able to fix what needed fixing [I'm mechanically inclined but not a mechanic by trade]. And, in some cases, someone with mechanically ability can make some of the "special tools" required for some of these procedures; I have made my own crankshaft locking tool and camshaft rear sprocket bolt-tightening adapter.
All of the above also pertains to the 7 series diesel Volvos except they were considered the premium model so besides the turbo, most did have leather interiors, sunroofs, power windows/locks, and unfortunately, automatic transmissions; enter the dreaded ZF! First, the good; the turbo is nice- adds about 20 more HP, MUCH faster acceleration, and little, if any, visible smoke [almost none on my son's 745]. Now the bad- almost all of the 7 series diesels (especially in the last years- '85 & '86) came with a German-built automatic transmission- the ZF 4HP22. My son purchased his 745 about 4 years ago for $200- only 127K but wouldnt start and the trans pan & filter had been removed and were loose inside the car. Getting the engine running was easy- 2 dead glow plugs, one on each end of the motor. Once running, however, the car would not acquire any gear, forward or reverse. Turns out, there was an inherent problem with the these trannys [BMWs as well, the only other car that was imported with these miserable units], many have an internal fluid leakage problem at the first 2 steel rings behind the pump, there is a significant pressure loss resulting in almost no power out of the converter. Again, turning to my trusty laptop, I scoured the 'net for help. The BMW sites are about as helpful as Mercedes- "take it to a reputable dealer" {"reputable" BMW dealer? isnt that a contradiction in terms?} I ended up buying the Volvo "green book" for the ZF- it depicts a complete rebuild, step by step- extremely helpful. But, luck smiled on me, and on a trip to a remove-it-youself junkyard, I found an '85 3 sreies BMW with a recent factory-rebuilt 4HP22. I ripped out the rug and shift consol, can-openered the floor, and took the unit out caveman style [the feeling of ripping up a BMW with a visegrips, hammer, and chisel was purely orgasmic]. Once home, I changed out the bellhousing, tailhousing, yoke, pressed in a new stator, new front pump, new seals at both ends, and had the original 745td converter done over by a local tubine shop. On the advice of Jurgen at Jaggi Distributors [the guru for all things ZF], I left the mainshaft intact and left the BMW valve body in. The end result was smooth and almost undetectable shifting without the usual harsh "bang" when the converter locks up.
My final advice in terms of the most desirable Volvo diesel wagon, would be a 745 with the M46; rare but not non-existant, definately worth the search. Although the ZF is as common in Europe as a GM700R4 is here, its highly inlikely you'll be as lucky in a boneyard hunt as I was, and again, the donor choices are only mid-'80s beamers and other Volvo diesels (gas Volvos mostly had Asian Warners, none had ZFs). Even a good shifting ZF represents a potential weak link in an otherwise strong chain; I would avoid it if possible.
In the spirit of "Volvo giveback", I would gladly share my sources for parts, websites, or tools [including photos of my homemade stuff] for anything I've mentioned above, although in all honesty, the "core crew" of this website, Jason in particular, are more expert than I.

Good luck and regards to all-
chris

Btw- does anybody have a loose flywheel for a 2.4 manual? Even warped or severely scored?- all I really need is the ring gear, for an otherwise good flywheel on my "spare parts shelf".

[v8volvo]

I agree that the 745 TD with M46 is the big score to chase after in terms of Volvo Diesels... they were only made in 1985, and there weren't many of them. I'm lucky enough to have two. :cool: The 700 series TD cars are very nice to drive. The 240s are much slower and less refined, but they also have a certain appeal and are fun in a different way. As a car to drive long distances in, a nicely set-up 700 TD is a much better choice, and in fact it's one of the best long-haul road cars I've ever experienced... but a diesel 240 is fine for short-distance commuting, or if you are one of those people who loves 240s and will never think of driving anything else. Can't blame ya, everyone has their preference, I've tried both and like the 700s better, but 240s are fantastic cars without a doubt.

I actually don't think the ZF trannies are really all that bad. They are nothing less than a delight to operate when they are working right. They aren't bulletproof, but they also aren't expensive or difficult to rebuild when they do fail (according to those who have done it -- I have yet to attempt it myself but have a core transmission that I'm looking forward to rehabbing sometime this winter), and they really work nicely. They're also very efficient, so a 700-series TD with the automatic is actually, in my experience, quicker in most situations than a TD with manual trans, and the MPG is almost exactly the same.

There's a guy selling a nice red 245 Diesel just up the road from me for less than $1000... looks like he's recently painted it, and it even appears to have a rare flat-hood front end setup. It looks like it's a project, but OD units aren't hard to rebuild as smokeswagen describes above (or you can easily find them used as well), and getting it fixed up wouldn't be a big job. Wonder where the wipers went, though... this time of year in the Northwest you don't want to be without them!
http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/2040407175.html

No connection to the car or seller, etc, although I'm always happy to help by taking a look and a drive if you were interested since I am nearby.

[Jason]

My ZF had 160k miles on it when I started beating the crap outa it... I did I don't know how many burn outs, slipped the crap out of the converter and I'm sure superheated the trans fluid manually shifting it all the time (which the owners manual specificaly says not to do) and it shifted and felt the same when I took it out as it did when I got the car. I would have to vote that they are pretty robust transmissions compaired to some I've delt with (4R100 for example in a powerstroke diesel...). Definently slower than the manual setup though!

Jason