Car hard to start in the morning (Socal - so cold should not be a factor)

[bryancald]

Hi,

I'm new to diesels and am not sure where to start.
I should note that this is a non-turbo motor.

One day leaving work, the glow plug light didn't illuminate.
It was a little hesitant to start, but not as much as now.
The next day it was back to normal. It stayed this way until as few weeks ago.

This symptom started all of the sudden. It used to start instantly.
One morning it took a couple of minutes to start and has been the same ever since.
Once it's been driven, it will start instantly - even if I screw up and forget to wait for the glow-plug cycle. Otherwise the engine runs perfect, good power, smooth idle.

Should I start at the glow plugs? Is there a way to test them?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Bryan

[ngoma]

Can you clarify if the GP light is not lighting during the incidents when it is hard to start? As in: Can you make a correlation between No GP light = hard start; GP light = easy start? That would tell us the GPs were OK but the GP relay or control circuitry was intermittent.

[bryancald]

GP light didn't light the one time. It has acted normal ever since.
GP lights for approx. ten seconds, still hard to start.

Thought of two other things:
Recently repaired leaky cell in battery (starter still cranks hard)
Seems to be easier to start if I turn the ignition off to restart GP cycle 3-4 times.

[Jason]

Assuning its turning over fast enough... I would say a coulpe glow plugs have gone bad. You just need a multi meter to test them, just test for resistance. If they are open they are burnt out. Also note I have had one that wasn't open but the resistance was super high, making the other glow plugs not glow at full temp because it was sucking all the power fromt the circuit. Watch out for readings that differ greatly from all the others. Even in warm weather, if the engine is cold it still needs a short glow period to start easily.

Jason

[ngoma]

Now I am really curious. How do you repair a leaky battery cell?

[bryancald]

The outside cell was leaking through the side of the case. I applied epoxy to stop the leak, let it cure, and then re-filled the cell with distilled H2o. It's held for several months. A new battery is in the works though.

[bryancald]

UPDATE: Tested the bus bar connecting GP's, showed 12V-14V from 1-6.
Heard the relay click off after 7-10 seconds.
Pulled second GP from front of engine, showed .8-1.0 ohms.
Hooked GP to battery and grounded GP base. Seemed to light up slowly.
I'm thinking the relay isn't allowing the GP's long enough to get really hot.
GP eventually (after 20 seconds or so) got up to 230 degrees.
I measured with an IR temp gun.
Should it heat up faster?

Thanks,
Bryan

[bryancald]

Well, it wouldn't start this morning. Battery died before it showed any signs of life.
I even cycled the gp's 3 times before I attempted to crank it over.

[Jason]

The plug should be orange at the tip within a couple seconds. Either the batt is bad or you have the really old slow type glow plugs, but I can't immagine they would still work if they were that old. You should check all the glow plugs though.

Jason

[bryancald]

Is it possible to replace all six without removing the injection pump on the D24?
I've seen mixed answers.

Bryan

[Jason]

Yes it is, the rear most plug is a slow go, you have to loosen it with a wrench through the injection pump belt. Loosen the 8mm nut holding the bus bar to the plug first, but dont take it all the way off, just enough so you can turn the glow plug with the wrench and remove it. Use the bus bar to remove the plug, and to reinstall the new one.

Jason

[bryancald]

Well that job REALLY sucks!
GP 5 and 6 are a real pain to get to.
It turns out 5 of 6 GP's were bad - all were open.

The car starts almost before you turn the key now.
.....now to replace that battery!

Thanks to all for the tips on this job!

Bryan

[Jason]

Yes it is, you use the bus bar to remove the last couple plugs. Loosen up the nut that holds the bus bar on, but not all the way off, just so you can unscrew the plug, then fish the plug out while its still hanging from it. Install it the same way. Its just the rear most one thats a pain, you'll have to remove it working through the IP timing belt, using a open end wrench.

Jason

[RLDSL]

Easier way next time to replace 5 and 6 is to get a 8 and 12 mm gear wrenches, and lay some padding down on the passenger side ( U.S.) fender and lay across it on your belly wnd reach in there with your left hand. Access becomes easy at this point, remove the 8mm strap nuts pull the strap out of the way, then put the 12mm gear wrench on the plugs and they will come right out without a fuss.

[Jason]

Interesting... unscrewing the plug wasn't the issue for me, but without leaving the buss bar on there, how do you get the plug in and out of the hole? There was no way i could get my hand in there from any direction. Leaving the buss bar on was the trick I was told and it worked pretty well I thought... No other way I could see to get ahold of the plug and actually be able to get the threads started.

[RLDSL]

Interesting... unscrewing the plug wasn't the issue for me, but without leaving the buss bar on there, how do you get the plug in and out of the hole? There was no way i could get my hand in there from any direction. Leaving the buss bar on was the trick I was told and it worked pretty well I thought... No other way I could see to get ahold of the plug and actually be able to get the threads started.

Not difficult. When laying in that position and undoing it with your left hand, ehrn you thread it out just grab with your fingertips, starting it in , just hold it in fingertips and poke it in and give a few light twists to get it startedm then pot the gearwrench on. I have the worst kind of crippling arthritis ( . the reason I finally had to close my shop heck, I can't even open a pop bottle without pliers anymore), so if I can do it, anyone can. Coming in from the passenger side puts your hand in just the right position to do it all. Trying to get it from the drivers side reaching over the pump or from the front is impossible. Just don;t bend that way.

[Jason]

Well I'll give it a try from that side next time... Hopefully there isn't a next time anytime soon. My car was eating glow plugs for a while but its been good for a few months finnally. I was using genuine Bosch plugs but I must have gotten some from a bad batch. I replaced that #6 gp two times in 3 months.

Jason

[RLDSL]

Well I'll give it a try from that side next time... Hopefully there isn't a next time anytime soon. My car was eating glow plugs for a while but its been good for a few months finnally. I was using genuine Bosch plugs but I must have gotten some from a bad batch. I replaced that #6 gp two times in 3 months.

Jason

Any chance you have your injection timing set too far advanced? Advancing timing will increase performance..to a point, go over that point and you end up getting a detonation and some other issues that plays heck with glow plugs

[Jason]

It is advanced, but only up to 1.05mm, and I had rechecked it a couple times. I had run that injection timing for a while before the plugs started to fail, and it was just that number 6, then two more times after that. As I said, I think it was just a crap batch of them. After that last one was replaced, haven't had a problem since. I had checked all the normal stuff, see if the plugs are staying on and getting burnt up, everything was working fine. I didn' have a problem with any other of the plugs other than maybe one other that I replaced some time in the past year or so that had come with the car so who knows how old it was.

Jason