New turbo setup! T3/T4, Pics added!

[Jason]

Hi everyone,
just wanted to share, I swapped out the restrictive stock turbo and built my own using the stock center section. Its a T3 hot side with a .63 A/R housing, and a T4 compressor side with a .50 a/r. It has a 3" inlet and 2" outlet. I haven't got the intercooler set up yet, but even with it necking down and blowing in the stock location, it is a different animal! Once it gets above 10 lbs of boost it really takes off! The whistle is unreal. I took some pictures, I just gotta load them up.

Jason

[jbg]

Jason,

That sounds fantastic! I've just placed my rebuilt (by me) stock turbo on my car, I too was thinking that a T3/T4 would be an interesting idea. Please attach some pictures so we can share in the excitement! :D

[cuaz64]

Cool! I was thinking about use a Cosworth .48 or .63 A/R exhaust housing with a small T4 compressor.

[EvoStevo]

So a small cold side/large hot side combination works best on a diesel? I had it the other way around. My plan was to build a .60 compressor/.48 turbine using T3 parts. Is T3/T4 the way to go?

[cuaz64]

So a small cold side/large hot side combination works best on a diesel? I had it the other way around. My plan was to build a .60 compressor/.48 turbine using T3 parts. Is T3/T4 the way to go?

a VNT/VGT should be better, but the problem is the boost control (theoretically).

[Jason]

Well not really, the turbine side really needs to be a .48, a .36 like stock but not that restrictive stock one would also work. It spools ok, but not like it did. Then again, I still have more fuel to throw at it which should help it spool better. A .60 A/R compressor would work great, I just had access to a .50 T4 side so I used it.

Jason

[Josh]

You should post a video so we can hear the sound... maybe one at WOT? I wanna see the difference between my stocker and yours... if its able to be quick enough I might sell my turbo AWD eclipse and just make my volvo a quick family car that gets decent mileage :)

[Jason]

I don't know if its going to hold up with your AWD eclipse just yet, but I have heard there was a guy somewhere up in the pacific northwest that had run a best of 13.1 with his turbo diesel. I'm guessing he had injectors, and I'm sure a stainless head gasket and probably ARP studs too. I still have to install an intercooler before I add more boost.


Right now, Its wastegated at 15lbs, and I can say for sure, 15lbs with this turbo is faster than 25lbs with the stocker, no joke! As the rpms climb it keeps pulling harder, rather than kinda falling off by 4500 rpms like it did with the stock turbo. If you look at the exhaust housing of the stocker, it is a very restrictive design, with more than half the area of the turbine inlet being directed to the waste gate. This is not ideal for any sort of performance or higher than stock boost.

Theres also a couple pics of my new down pipe, its 2-3/4", and next to it is the stocker so you can compare. It really flows well, and the sound is deeper and nice overall.

Jason

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/466/img1584e.th.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1584e.jpg)
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/723/img1586u.th.jpg (http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1586u.jpg)
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4748/img1589p.th.jpg (http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1589p.jpg)

After you click on the image and the page pops up, you can click it again for a full resolution full screen image.

[Jason]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3182/img1591b.th.jpg (http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1591b.jpg)
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2020/img1593a.th.jpg (http://img197.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1593a.jpg)

[Josh]

By the way... what exactly are our options for adding an intercooler? with the stock mounting position I can't see it being easy to route... I would really like to add one soon to help keep the air temps down inside the motor.. The intercooler on my eclipse is about the size of a mouse pad but does a fairly good job considering how much of a different there is when it wasn't hooked up...

[Jason]

There are a number of options, I think one guy on here had one for sale that was off a saab? There are the ebay ones, in a number of configurations. Pretty much any intercooler is going to be a custom setup unless you could get ahold of all the stock stuff from a european D24tic... I'm planning on using the intercooler from a 740 turbo gas model. It looks pretty big and was obviously in the same body car so it should fit up front without too much trouble. I'll post up pics of the setup when I do it.

Jason

[Josh]

Well, how exactly will you get the piping to fit from the turbo to the intercooler and back to the intake manifold with such a small gap between the turbo and the manifold? o.O I can't seem to see how to make it work.

[IceV_760]

Answer is to buy intercooler and move radiator back.
It IS doable. Volvos original intercooler really dont kick ass,
its pretty pathetic showoff.
Ofc its not a bolt on to fit unoriginal, but
the difference with ebay/chinese-volvo cooler really pays the upset.
If you want i can search and post the results when they compared intercoolers together.

So, i still give my voice to ebay-chinese one.

[Jason]

Are you saying the original diesel intercooler was crap, or the gas one? I have been around on the volvo forums and didn't run across to many complaints about the stock intercoolers not being effective..

For hooking up the intercooler, you can clock the turbo housing a different direction and do a silicone 90 degree fitting on it to run to the intercooler. To go into the manifold, you can remove the boost dump valve and clamp a inlet pipe there. The stock inlet will have to be caped. I'm going to have a plate of a aluminum welded over the stock inlet. The easy way to do it would be to use a D24 NA manifold and plump your intercooler inlet to the stock inlet, its in the same location as the dump valve but much larger. I'm planning on cutting off the flange for the dump valve, boring out the opening, and having a small section of 2" or 2.5" (depending on what I come up with for an intercooler) welded to the front of the manifold. Pretty much duplicating the NA manifold.

Jason

[IceV_760]

both intercoolers.
First of all they wont last much more than 1,0bar(14.5psi)
, after that theres high change at the intercooler just "blows" to pieces,
plastic heads just disengages from cell.

Also there was about 10'c (50´F) difference after intercooler on
gas temperature, so more power again.

[cuaz64]

Well, you new turbo is better at 15PSI that the stock one at 25PSI because the new provide a bigger airflow. About the intercooler setups, I posted a few. The intercooler used in the D24TIC is the same used in the 90+ B230FT, that intercooler start to loose "power" at 12PSI and "explode" at 18PSI, you can find more info here: http://www.rsphysse.anu.edu.au/~amh110/Intercooler/volvo_intercooler.htm.

[IceV_760]

Thanks, that is really nice link,
which says: go and buy ebay/chinese one:p

[Jason]

Good to know, I was about to buy one off ebay from a gasser 740. Wish I could fit one up front from a diesel truck like a powerstroke or cummins. A little too big for the car I would suppose!

I need an intercooler that will hold 20psi. I'm thinking that should be no problem with the low restriction exhaust housing I have, the drive pressure shouldn't be much and the EGT should be good and low. 20psi is well within the efficiency range of my T4 compressor housing. I'll have to post up some video, it really sounds cool when that turbo spools compaired to the stocker. Now you know something is there!

Jason

[cuaz64]

Good to know, I was about to buy one off ebay from a gasser 740. Wish I could fit one up front from a diesel truck like a powerstroke or cummins. A little too big for the car I would suppose!

I need an intercooler that will hold 20psi. I'm thinking that should be no problem with the low restriction exhaust housing I have, the drive pressure shouldn't be much and the EGT should be good and low. 20psi is well within the efficiency range of my T4 compressor housing. I'll have to post up some video, it really sounds cool when that turbo spools compaired to the stocker. Now you know something is there!

Jason

your new setup spools up faster or equal to the stock turbo?

[IceV_760]

Mm i got really wild idea..:cool:
You know, there is plenty of space on left of the motor, just
battery and thats it..
Idea would be to buy bonnet from some junkyard car of same model serie,
then add intercooler diagonally to that free psace, cut on the spare bonnet an rift where it would get cooling air and make scoop there, and to underside of intercooler add radioator to suck air on low speeds..
Who knows, this would prevent for moving radiator back:D

[cuaz64]

Mm i got really wild idea..:cool:
You know, there is plenty of space on left of the motor, just
battery and thats it..
Idea would be to buy bonnet from some junkyard car of same model serie,
then add intercooler diagonally to that free psace, cut on the spare bonnet an rift where it would get cooling air and make scoop there, and to underside of intercooler add radioator to suck air on low speeds..
Who knows, this would prevent for moving radiator back:D

You are really crazy!

[Jason]

The new turbo is quite different in how it spools compaired to the stock turbo... From idle up to around 2000 rpm, it doesn't do much, where as the stock turbo was already making boost. However, once it is around 2500 rpm and begins to spool, it spools faster from 10 psi on up. The stock turbo was more linear in its increase in boost, the new turbo goes up slow to around 10, then will slam the needle to whatever boost setting it is waste gated at. Also, on the highway, I can push around 15lbs of boost at 3k rpm with the converter locked and the pedal down to the detent before kickdown. With the same fueling, the stock turbo wouldn't make more than 10lbs of boost at 3k rpm.

Its a huge improvement overall, but I'm looking for a .48 A/R exhaust housing, as I think it would have better low end spool up without hurting the top end too much. If it was a manual, it would probably be less noticeable, but the stall speed of the stock converter pretty much holds it at to low of an rpm to build any decent boost untill you get going a little bit (if you floor it from a stop). Also, with the bigger housing I cant build barely any boost if I brake torque it. However once your are rolling, and get into it, the car is totally different compaired to the stock turbo...

Jason

[IceV_760]

You are really crazy!

You could build an heat-protection plate also between engine and intercooler,
just drill hole where you will take ic pipes throught. Im now really thinking about this,
it would be _easiest_ way to do, and would give some respect on cities when people see you have scoop on that brick. Look for picture about "d24tic intake manifold" its quite different than d24 or d24t intake manifold, and would make piping easy from that diagonally placed intercooler. Have to go and take some numbers, but volvo 850 intercooler pipes would be on right positions, and you can get this intercooler with metal heads as spare part/ second-hand made copy which will flow better than original.
Well ill post about this crazy idea, i think i would really go for that since im lazy to move radiator and drill holes on metal which holds lights to get ic pipes throught.

[IceV_760]

By using my meter, it would be possible to fit 400x300, 500x350 or 350x450 total size intercooler on lenght and width, and there would be something like 120mm minimum space on thickness of IC, so 76mm IC +50mm electric fan would fit if youre not attaching it straight to the cars nose.
Interesting. And insane.

[IceV_760]

Wow, there IS second hand intercooler for sale which would fit to that place:eek:

Got to think, will i be lazy and rape some volvos bonnet or bother to do it "right" way.

[IceV_760]

http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/IceV_760/ICSTTIII.jpg

Cmoon look at this! This would fit under bonnet of 700series!
No radiator moving or any other shit required, just go buy spare bonnet if you dont dare to cut your own. And electric fan under ic to suck air on low speeds.
Then build heat protection plate between engine and ic, and maybe raise the bonnet from back a little to give some space to IC so you can turn backside of it more up so more air would pass it.

Im really thinking this now, this seems to be king idea:D

Any comments/toughts about this ( not the one im crazy;) )

[Jason]

I started to do this on the other side of the engine, with an Audi TDI intercooler. I was going to route the intake somewhere else, as the stock intake box is huge. Came to the conclussion that there wouldn't be much airflow potential even if you cut out the bottom of that area in front of the fender well (where the windshield washer resivoir sits). I don't think mounting one up front would be that big a deal. As you said, using one of the ebay ones... You can get them wide and not very tall, so they could be easily fit behind the front air dam. If you get it to work though, post up some pics, it should be an interesting install.

Jason

[IceV_760]

I will call tomorrow to special shop.
I believe there is potential to get enough airflow, since under IC wouldnt be either anything so it would be possible to construct air-flow "jig".
But remember, i run AC too so it would be anyways behind AC cooler, so i believe airflow would be pretty much same, and under 200 horsepowers that will be for sure enough, and that would give interesting opinion to add water/meth injection pump right on the mouth of scoop, where the incoming airflow would broke it to chim mist. And there we got atleast same cooling effect as with normal install.
Think about possiblities to unite the power of combining ic+water/meth injectors together, and to water/meth installation this would be optimal assemble place.
Think about it Jason?

Edited typos.

[Jason]

To me, the problem is where the air is going to exit off the intercooler... I guess it can go down around the engine. If it works for you, great! To me it looks easier to mount a long short one behind the front air dam. I also don't have access to a stock D24Tic manifold here in the states, so my plumbing is going to be quite different.

As I said, post up pictures! Not that I don't think it will work, I just think a front mount would be less work thats all...

Jason

[IceV_760]

Well, ive been searching d24tic intake manifold now for about month without succes:D
Not even single piece on any junkyard nor any person doesnt seem to own.
That long and short before front air dam ( am i right do you mean the "spoiler" where optional fog lights are also attached? ) would be my second option, but where to get pipes through? "backbone" bars come really nastily on way..
But there it would get alot of air.

[v8volvo]

Great discussion... glad to see some different turbo options are working. Hope to get a proper turbo built for my TD at some point too. I like the idea of less exhaust restriction -- seems like these things really are restricted from the factory in terms of breathing. I can feel how mine wants to haul above 4000 rpm, but something is getting in the way, either in the intake or exhaust.

I'm looking at an FMIC too. Are you monitoring EGT or oil temps? Watch out as you pump the boost up... A good upgrade is going to a proper external oil cooler setup, you can use the thermostatic sandwich plate off a redblock turbo Volvo and use an RX7 or redblock heat exchanger. Way better than that junk VW setup that "cools" the oil via the coolant.

Jason, what are you going to do about the injector pump on yours? You are going to need more fuel at some point... Giles upgrade?

[IceV_760]

Ive heard also before about "giles upgrade" what is that?

Ive changed tactik to add intercooler, after talking with the guy in special shop.
Maybe it isnt the best possible place :rolleyes:

Ill add it behind that "spoiler", 700x160x52 total size intercooler will fit there, and you can drill holes to ic pipes next to battery and airbox.
No d24tic intake manifold for me, not in whole finland as i know..
D24 N/A intake manifold will be the choice then.

[Jason]

Yes, I'm talking about mounting behind the air dam or spoiler where the fog lights are. You could run one pipe up through the plate that sits below the air box (mine is gone, there is lots of space). I may route both through there, since the turbo and minfold inlet are on the same side.

The pump isn't a limiting factor yet... I think the HG is going to give out before I can max it out. With the new turbo, and the pump adjusted, I have enough fuel to push 25psi easily. No way the engine will handle that though. I haven't even removed the collar on the fuel screw yet. If more fuel was needed, next for me would be injectors and a lift pump. The stock head can supply plenty of fuel with a decent lift pump pushing it in. Even at 15lbs of boost with the new turbo, there is still excessive fuel, and a decent amount of smoke. At my current fueling, I would need probably 20psi to clean it up.

I'm not monitoring oil or exhaust temp at this point, I plan to add an EGT guage, but I know better than to lay into it for a long period of time on the highway or something without an EGT gauge to watch. Thats when you really build some heat. Same goes with the oil, between the stock cooler, and the 8 quarts that are in this thing, I doubt I'm getting it too hot. I just don't run it that hard all the time. I get into it here and there for fun, but otherwise I'm just cruising. I don't live in an area full of mountains to climb, so I'm thinking its fine.


Giles is a guy in canada that builds hotrod VE pumps. Pretty much he is swapping either a larger head and rotor, and or a higher lift cam plate into the pump for more fuel flow potential. There are other adjustments that are made, but they are all things that are do it yourself friendly.

Jason

[Jason]

Plan is to add the intercooler and push the boost to 18 to 20psi and some more fuel. See how long the HG lasts at that point. If she goes, the stainless one will be in my future...

Jason

[IceV_760]

If you want to save your engine dont go to stainless..
Its the last fuse between your engine life and death.
Some people there more likely burn headgaskets than risk their head.
But, go ARP studs same time if it blows and you change it!

[Jason]

Good point, I suppose I could do the stock gasket and studs...

I hate to do the gasket, but I would really not like to ruin the engine!

Jason

[EvoStevo]

If you want to save your engine dont go to stainless..
Its the last fuse between your engine life and death.
Some people there more likely burn headgaskets than risk their head.
But, go ARP studs same time if it blows and you change it!

Wait, what's wrong with using the stainless gasket?

[IceV_760]

Stainless gasket wont "give up".
If gasket wont give up what is next on list?
Head..
If you check normal gasket every while and then it start to leak before it is completetely destroyed and there for saves it.

[cuaz64]

To me, the problem is where the air is going to exit off the intercooler... I guess it can go down around the engine. If it works for you, great! To me it looks easier to mount a long short one behind the front air dam. I also don't have access to a stock D24Tic manifold here in the states, so my plumbing is going to be quite different.

As I said, post up pictures! Not that I don't think it will work, I just think a front mount would be less work thats all...

Jason

You can use the "Slobodan way" to install an intercoooler.
Ive heard also before about "giles upgrade" what is that?

Ive changed tactik to add intercooler, after talking with the guy in special shop.
Maybe it isnt the best possible place :rolleyes:

Ill add it behind that "spoiler", 700x160x52 total size intercooler will fit there, and you can drill holes to ic pipes next to battery and airbox.
No d24tic intake manifold for me, not in whole finland as i know..
D24 N/A intake manifold will be the choice then.

The "Gile upgrade" is a injection pump modified by Giles Banks in Canada. You can find the D24TIC throught a thread in the "wanted" section of turbobricks.com