Timing, Pump, & Valve Adjusting Tools

[TinMan]

I know this topic has been covered quite a bit, but I have some additional questions about timing tools. I need to change timing and pump belts and also adjust the valves, and so far I know I need the cam locking tool and pump lock pin, and I think for adjusting valves I need the valve adjusting tool and valve shims. I've also found some other tools for setting pump timing and doing overall maintenance to the pump as well as valve shim pliers. Does anybody have any of these other tools I'm referring to, and if so, are they necessary? Here are a couple examples of the tools I'm talking about:

http://tinyurl.com/ebay-timing-pump-tools

http://tinyurl.com/ebay-valve-shim-pliers

http://chadstoolbox.com/hazet2574-1valveadjustingtool.aspx

http://tinyurl.com/ebay-funky-wrench

Also, does anybody know of a good place to get valve shims? The only place I've been able to find them is from a website called PartsGeek.com, but I don't really know anything about that business.

[v8volvo]

The valve adjustment tools look right. For the shims, see if there is a good foreign parts place near you, or a foreign auto repair shop. Many places will allow you to rent a whole kit from them for a fairly cheap daily rate, and then just buy from them the shims that you use out of the kit. I have the factory Volvo diesel valve adjustment kit that I may consider renting out if you really run out of luck. But if you just want individual shims, you should be able to find them at places like autohausaz.com

You don't need that weird looking bent wrench. The pump timing is not adjusted by moving the pump on a D24T. It is better to adjust it by moving the rear sprocket independently of the cam. Even if you did want to move the pump, all the bolts are easily accessible with regular wrenches. I like my flex-head ratcheting gear wrenches for this kind of work but you can get by just fine with regular tools.

The auction for the collection of diesel tools doesn't really have anything you need either. The cam locking plate is something you need to have but you can get that independently. The pump locking pin is completely unnecessary -- it only gets in the way, and even if you did want to use it, the VW style one is too long to fit between the pump sprocket and the firewall in a Volvo installation. I have the official Volvo tool, which is similar but has a more stubby end on it.... but I have never used it since it is easier without. Part of the timing procedure involves being able to rotate the rear cam and pump pulleys independent of the rest of the engine (with the rear cam bolt loose to allow this movement). If there is a locking pin in there, well..... the pump sprocket isn't going to be able to move.

The real tools you need are the following:
--Locking plate for the back of the cam for setting cam timing
--Dial indicator and holder (VW one works but involves removing the vacuum pump for use; Volvo/Audi one has a longer holder and pin to allow you to time the motor without removing the vac pump, since it places the dial indicator further from the IP where it does not interfere with the VP)
--Counterhold tool for breaking loose the bolts that hold on the front and rear cam sprockets, and for when you have to tighten the bolts back up during reassembly. You CANNOT get by without this. The Volvo tool # is 9995199 and they are still available through Rotunda Tools for only about $40, or through your Volvo dealer for a little more. Alternately, a universal "sprocket buster" tool may work fine too. I have used one designed for VW TDIs and it more or less worked just as well as the proper Volvo one. The one I have used is made by Metalnerd and is shown on this page: http://www.metalnerd.com/cat03.htm I have gotten into the habit of using this tool on the front sprocket lately and the Volvo factory 5199 tool on the rear one, but either will work for both, as well as for other engines where this is necessary.
--Crankshaft counterhold tool, Volvo P/N 9995187 or 5188 I forget which. This is another one that you cannot do without. It keeps the crank from rotating as you loosen and then retorque the center crank bolt, which you have to remove to get the belt off. This bolt is TIGHT. The torque spec is over 400 ft-lbs. It will require a massive cheater bar to get it off, and an equally massive cheater bar to achieve sufficient torque when reinstalling it after replacing the belt. I just did this over the weekend on a D24T that was out of a car, strapped to a pallet... torquing the bolt put so much rotational force on the assembly that the whole thing nearly flipped right over, pallet and all. Insufficient torque will mean the crank sprocket will work its way off and the engine will skip time... and that means big damage and big bucks. I can't imagine doing this job without this tool... I can see no way you could do it properly without hurting yourself or the car or both. Also still available fairly cheaply through Rotunda and Volvo, or someone on here (including me) will have one that you can borrow if you want to pay shipping and leave a deposit.

That's it. It's not a terribly difficult job. Check the condition of your water pump and idler bearings when you are in there -- you may at least need a new water pump seal, since the O-ring gets disturbed when you replace the belt, and the idler may need replaced as well. That requires another special tool (a puller) or some kind of cagey method to get it out. You can use a slide hammer if the engine is out of the car... but I assume yours won't be. If you need to replace your water pump, be sure to use a good quality one ... that means NOT a GMB pump. Bosch pumps are good quality and are available through RockAuto.com. The idler bearings, should you need one, are widely available since they are the same ones used on 5-cylinder VW Eurovan engines which are relatively recent and commonplace.

[TinMan]

Thank you for taking the time to provide so much info! :)

I've found the tools I need along with most of the parts, but I just can't seem to track down valve shims. I'm going to call around to a few more local places and see if I have any luck.

Will I also need to replace the cam seal, front crank seal, and timing cover seal?

[v8volvo]

No need to replace the seals unless they are leaking. Some people prefer to replace them anyway, but I consider it likely that one might do as much harm as good... In this case, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Don't forget that the valve shims are the same ones used for all solid-lifter VW water-cooled engines from 1975 up until they all switched to hydraulic around 1986. That includes all the Rabbit and first gen Jetta engines (gas and diesel), some early Mk2 Golfs and Jettas, various Audi 4- and 5-cylinder gassers and diesels, and of course the D24 and D24T. There are a zillion of those shims out there, they should not be hard to find. When you ask about them, make sure you specify that you are looking for VW stuff -- may make it much easier to find a set.

If you need to buy, I know Jack at vwdieselparts.com sells them, and the Parts Place (which I believe is also in the midwest) probably does as well. Or perhaps Jason's outfit in MO can sell you what you need. Either way they should not be hard to find -- any foreign car garage that has been around for more than just a few years ought to have a set, since it was routine maintenance for hundreds of thousands of cars that used those same shims.

Make sure you use the good neoprene rubber valve cover gasket when you put it back together. Doesn't leak, unlike the cork ones which always seem to even right from the beginning, and you can reuse it an infinite number of times and it will still seal.

[lmwatbullrun]

Search on Ebay for 'VW shim' and you can find them. Just saw two sets, one with about a hundred pieces in various sizes and one with no shim inventory but a valve depressor and a set of shim pliers, go within the last week. They aren't a regular item but keep a saved search and you will find them. That is how I got mine.

[TinMan]

Is this a proper Volvo shim kit?

http://tinyurl.com/VolovPentaValveShimKit

[Jason]

Not if its volvo penta... That would be their marine engines. They will probably be more likely to be under vw parts. I wouldn't waste your money on buying 100+ shims unless you are a service shop or parts place... We don't even stock them any more as the demand is so low. We just order in whatever size you need. As I remember, they are about 2 or 3 bucks a piece.

Jason

[lmwatbullrun]

Not if its volvo penta... That would be their marine engines. They will probably be more likely to be under vw parts.
Jason

+1 on that; VW shims are the ticket. Don't know much about the volvo pentas except that they are not related to the VW engine in your diesel Volvo.


I wouldn't waste your money on buying 100+ shims unless you are a service shop or parts place... We don't even stock them any more as the demand is so low. We just order in whatever size you need. As I remember, they are about 2 or 3 bucks a piece.

Jason

Agree with the price; around $3 or so per is about the going rate for single shims, but-

a) I *HATE* to wait for supplies; I work a very full week and when the weekend comes I want to get things done, not figure out what I need and order parts, so spending $100 so that I can do valve adjustments when I want or when I have the time is worth it to me. YMMV. Plus, I have a dieselhead buddy that runs older VW diesels, and he can use them too.

b) I plan on running my volvo diesel fleet for a long time; I hope that they last the rest of my life, which hopefully is at least another 25 years or so, and I want to get all the parts that I might need for that time period. Again, if you aren't planning to run these things for a long while, YMMV.

c) even in the short term, there may come a day when you can't order a shim. Then you are looking at going to the machine shop to have one (or more) custom made. Of course, if that day comes, then you may decide you don't want your nice D24T anymore. If that day comes, call me! <grin>

[TinMan]

My suspicions were that the kit wasn't correct, but I wasn't positive.

Is there a specific size range for the shims that I should keep my eye out for? There are several kits on ebay that have different size shim ranges. I'm a bit like Imwatbullrun in that I like to have what I need on hand even if I might not need it for quite a while, so I may just buy myself a kit if I find one.

[cuaz64]

There is somewhere a Penta Version of the D24T. The only differences that I know are:
*is mounted in a boat:rolleyes:
*Use a 12mm injection pump

The shims in the ebay picture are for gas engines.

[lmwatbullrun]

My suspicions were that the kit wasn't correct, but I wasn't positive.

Is there a specific size range for the shims that I should keep my eye out for? There are several kits on ebay that have different size shim ranges. I'm a bit like Imwatbullrun in that I like to have what I need on hand even if I might not need it for quite a while, so I may just buy myself a kit if I find one.

I have not yet adjusted the valves on my beast; that is this weekend's vehicle chore. Jason may have some insight on this as he does it for a living in addition to doing it because he likes it......

[Jason]

Hard to say on that, kind depends on what you took out, and if you have ground the valves or seats, or replaced the valves etc... Its really just a guess and test. Put it together and see where you are at.

Jason

[v8volvo]

My suspicions were that the kit wasn't correct, but I wasn't positive.

Is there a specific size range for the shims that I should keep my eye out for? There are several kits on ebay that have different size shim ranges. I'm a bit like Imwatbullrun in that I like to have what I need on hand even if I might not need it for quite a while, so I may just buy myself a kit if I find one.

When I adjust the valves on higher-mileage engines I always find myself using the thinner shims. In fact several times I have run out of the thinner sizes in my shim kit and had to get more since the thinner ones are just about all I end up using. Usually, if it has been a long time since the valves were last adjusted and the head has never been rebuilt, you will be taking out shims that are in the 3.55-3.80 range and putting in shims that are more in the 3.25-3.65 range.

If you are getting a kit I would make sure you have at least 2 or 3 of every size between 3.25 and 3.75 for your older engine. You will not need anything above 3.80 unless you are building a fresh head.

Remember that if you don't have exactly the right shim, or your measurements are right between two shim thickness increments, always err on the looser side (i.e. a thinner shim). A little too loose is better than a little too tight.

[TinMan]

v8volvo, would you by chance be willing to measure the length of the Volvo gauge holder tool you have? I'm emailing back and forth with a seller on ebay to find out if an indicator holder set he sells is long enough to work with the D24T. I'm hoping it is long enough so I don't have to pay $80 to get one from the Volvo dealer.

Thanks! :)

[Jason]

The pump is no different than whats on the 4cyl 1.6 diesel. If the holder and dial indicator is supposed to work on the 1.6, it will work on the 2.4 as well. The head just has a couple extra injector lines comming out, otherwise (for the most part) its the same thing.

Jason

[v8volvo]

A holder designed to work on the 1.6 can be used on a D24T, but the longer Volvo one is better because you don't have to remove the vacuum pump to use it (the extra length extends the dial indicator far enough forward that they don't interfere with each other). If you already have a holder for a 1.6 you can use that, but if you are going to buy a new holder anyway, I would try to get the longer one since it really is much easier to use. Removing the vac pump isn't a horrible chore but it's extra work, it is messy and oily and always gets motor oil dumped on the heater hoses below, and you risk the vac pump drive plunger escaping and then you have to take extra time and care to make sure you don't re-install it facing the wrong way (which can wreck the camshaft)... plus you may disturb the seal and then have to deal with replacing that.

The long one should not be too hard to find, since it was used on 2.0L Audis as well (they have the same setup as a D24/T). You might try calling Baum Tools in Florida, they are a VW tool supplier and I'm sure they will be able to sell you the longer tool for a good price. Just tell then you need one for an Audi and they will know what you're talking about.

[lmwatbullrun]

A holder designed to work on the 1.6 can be used on a D24T, but the longer Volvo one is better because you don't have to remove the vacuum pump to use it (the extra length extends the dial indicator far enough forward that they don't interfere with each other). If you already have a holder for a 1.6 you can use that, but if you are going to buy a new holder anyway, I would try to get the longer one since it really is much easier to use. Removing the vac pump isn't a horrible chore but it's extra work, it is messy and oily and always gets motor oil dumped on the heater hoses below, and you risk the vac pump drive plunger escaping and then you have to take extra time and care to make sure you don't re-install it facing the wrong way (which can wreck the camshaft)... plus you may disturb the seal and then have to deal with replacing that.

The long one should not be too hard to find, since it was used on 2.0L Audis as well (they have the same setup as a D24/T). You might try calling Baum Tools in Florida, they are a VW tool supplier and I'm sure they will be able to sell you the longer tool for a good price. Just tell then you need one for an Audi and they will know what you're talking about.

And it works just fine with the pump in place. All I did was loosen the clamp holding the dial indicator to the shaft that screws in, and let the indicator rotate freely as I screwed the shaft in. When I had the indicator shaft seated properly, I adjusted the position so the indicator was reading properly, and tightened it down. Did have to bend over a bit to read the dial, as it was a bit past vertical, but that was not a problem for me. Did not have to remove the vac pump at all. And did not have to buy an $60 dollar indicator. (You'd never know my ancestors were Scottish, would you?)