pump change

[HetLaeN]

Heard about one that used the M-pump from a 300d on a bmw 2,4 that uses the same VE pump just like the D24 and I wondered if the M-pump could be used on the D24?

[cuaz64]

Somwhere here in the forum, is a thread about part numbers for "chinabay" directo fit pumps.

[Jason]

The part numbers I posted were for pump heads and internal parts, not for a whole pump. Besides that, the work needed to build one of those pumps to push more fuel is expensive. Its not as easy as a turn of the screw like the VE pump.

Jason

[HetLaeN]

The 300D has 5-cylinders.

300D also got a 3 liter 6 cylinder. You think about the OM617 engine, but i think of the OM603 :)

[HetLaeN]

Actually it is. 7.0mm and 7.5mm elements cost $55-75/ea and there are screws to easily adjust min/max speeds, max fuel and the defueling curve. The turbo engines can get an extra 20% (120-145hp) with just a few screw turns and the non-turbos have about 65% overhead (88-145hp) on the stock elements.

http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/ip-full-load-adjustment-procedure-for-mw-pumps-t-189.html

The only significant advantage of a VE pump is an internal timing advance, the M and MW require an external timer as part of the chain/belt sprocket.

would a m-pump modified from Myna give more diesel than a VE pump modified with 12mm piston?

[Jason]

Actually it is. 7.0mm and 7.5mm elements cost $55-75/ea and there are screws to easily adjust min/max speeds, max fuel and the defueling curve. The turbo engines can get an extra 20% (120-145hp) with just a few screw turns and the non-turbos have about 65% overhead (88-145hp) on the stock elements.



At the least, $330 is not cheap, and I wouldn't call a 20% increase in fueling significant. Changing plungers and barrels is not turning a screw.



Jason

[v8volvo]

The only significant advantage of a VE pump is an internal timing advance, the M and MW require an external timer as part of the chain/belt sprocket.

Well, that plus the fact that they are much smaller and lighter, and don't have any of the funny interfaces that the Mercedes fuel systems have. A VE pump only has fuel and one small electrical wire going to it (or technically two on the '85-'86 and a few rare '84 pumps in West Coast cars). A Mercedes pump means fuel, motor oil, and the vacuum system all have to interact in one component and the results of that can be messy. When those vacuum shutoff actuators fail, which they do all the time, they can spread black diesel engine oil all throughout the car's vacuum system... in the doors, in the dash, etc. I have worked on W123 diesels that have big black stains in the carpeting in the driver's footwell from where oil got into the ignition switch, damaged it, and ran out all over the inside of the dash and down into the footwell. You won't see that issue on a VE pump motor...

[Jason]

When those vacuum shutoff actuators fail, which they do all the time, they can spread black diesel engine oil all throughout the car's vacuum system... in the doors, in the dash, etc. I have worked on W123 diesels that have big black stains in the carpeting in the driver's footwell from where oil got into the ignition switch, damaged it, and ran out all over the inside of the dash and down into the footwell.


Now THAT would suck.


Jason

[HetLaeN]

would a m-pump modified from Myna give more diesel than a VE pump modified with 12mm piston?

[Jason]

Hard to say, depends on how much fuel it can flow. A 12mm head VE pump can support 300hp though.

Jason

[v8volvo]

Just telling you the facts of what I have seen. I recently had to replace an actuator on a 300D, and then had to replace the flasher relay on the same car, which is on top of the steering column and requires pulling the instrument cluster out for access. The shutoff actuator's diaphragm had failed and allowed oil to travel throughout the vacuum system. When I pulled the cluster out, I could see oil dripping from the ignition switch. On another car I worked on, there were black stains running down the transmission tunnel side of the driver's footwell, which is the opposite side from where the oil press gauge is, and right beneath the ignition switch. I work on Benzes routinely and have dealt with a fair number of them, and the shop where I work has worked on them for many years and has seen everything. I agree that they are pretty solid rigs and am not trying to disparage them. I can see their attraction and think they are a good design for the most part. But there is no denying that Benzes have their share of issues and tradeoffs too, like any other car or piece of equipment. I don't think they are any cheaper or easier to keep on the road than a Volvo diesel -- just they are much more common and familiar, which makes it less likely that a botched repair job will send them to their grave. I think that is probably how many of the Volvos died in the US. In Europe, where they are much more common and it is much less likely that a mechanic will screw up a timing belt job, valve adjustment, diagnosis, etc, the Volvo D24/T motors last just as long as the Benzers.

The timing belt vs timing chain difference is not a matter of inline vs VE pump, it's a factor of engine design, VW vs Mercedes. There are plenty of engines on the road with VE pumps that do have chain- or gear-driven timing components (Cummins, Mitsubishi, Nissan though they still have a separate belt for the pump in addition to the timing chain). Personally I would rather replace a timing belt every 75k than worry about chain stretch over time (belts don't stretch), and eventually have to replace the entire chain plus guides and followers, which is much more expensive and difficult than doing a belt. Mercedes design philosophy has always been to use chains while VW used belts, and that holds true all the way up to the present day. Each setup has its fans and detractors. It's a matter of preference but I think most of the people you talk to on here or on the VW/TDI boards will say they'd rather have a belt than a chain. Chains can break too, and are much more unpredictable about it in terms of guessing their service life (and that of the guides, etc). I would prefer to just replace a belt and one idler pulley every 75k and be done with it, and in the meantime enjoy the lower friction, increased efficiency, and quieter operation. ;)

I don't think there is much to argue about; each design has its strengths and weaknesses and which one you like better is a matter of choice. I don't think you could convince many Mercedes owners that they would really rather have a Volvo or VW, and likewise trying to convince the people on here that a Mercedes is better car than a D24T Volvo isn't going to get very far. If a Volvo owner had really wanted a Benz instead, they would already have bought one, since the Benzes are certainly easier to find. Anyone who is on here has gone through the extra effort to seek out a Volvo diesel. I don't think people will enjoy hearing you put their beloved vehicles down. Hope you became a member here for a reason other than that. We're not going to beat on your Benz so there is no reason to take a defensive position.

However, I think people *would* be interested in hearing more about your VNT setup. We are working on adapting one to a Volvo and would appreciate any experienced input. :D

[Jason]

Very, actually. Compared to the cost of an entire pump, its dirt cheap.

Who said anything about a entire pump. We are talking free modifications, not having a pump built


Actually it is. 20% of anything is significant, especially for costing nothing.

Not compaired to the close to to 100% increase in fueling that you can get with a VE over its stock settings.



Then you're not reading my post. Read it again.

I did read it, I was talking about adjustments, and you brought up plungers and barrels. Thats not an adjustment


That is 100% false information.
A failed actuator is very rare, its used only during shutoff and its well lubricated so it has little chance to wear out or break.
Second, its impossible for oil to enter the vacuum system beyond the shutoff system due to physics as air flows only to the vacuum pump.

Obviously its not, as George has seen it happen.

Unless you have something usefull to contribute, don't bother posting. Every post you have put up has been argumentative or bashing other peoples' work. If you want to argue with people, do it somehere else, don't waste my and everyone elses time with it. I am the one that gets to say so as this is MY forum.

Thanks

Jason

[HetLaeN]

I am going to pickup a m-pump tomorrow, and maybe im going to try to fit the m-pump on the d24tic. Hope it works. Does somebody know of some people that have tried this before, or do anyone have interresting information i should know about when trying this?

Hope somebody can answer on my question, and dont argue about what is best of volvo and mercedes. Both are good cars, start a new thread if you people are going to argue more about this, or even better, just dont argue. :)

Thanks! :D

Roy;)

[volvo d6]

You need to give it engine oil like the turbo. And alot more to put it on. What is wrong with the ve pump? Have you turned the max screw to the bottom and still need more fuel?

[HetLaeN]

You need to give it engine oil like the turbo. And alot more to put it on. What is wrong with the ve pump? Have you turned the max screw to the bottom and still need more fuel?

Never enough :D It is not enough before the engine is running unclean on lower revs :)

just like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YX_Ulgc1mo

it is a vw 1.9 tdi... got someplace around 450+++ horsepower...
love the sound<3

*bah-bah-bah-bah-bah-bah-baah-baaaah-baaaaah-baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!* :D