New member, new car 83 245 GL with d24 4 speed manual

[GWebie23]

I’m the new owner of a 83 245 GL d24 4speed manual with overdrive. New to these cars in particular but also have an 83 G10 with a 6.2TD hx40 with a 4L80e. I love this car, second owner and can’t get it running, so far new battery, fuel filter change, and added sea foam and atf to fuel in tank. I added a inline Electric fuel pump prior to injection pump to assist in fuel pressure. Cranks and smokes, glow plug relay works 12volts to glow plugs and light functions, just cranks and smokes. The timing marks appear to be on the mark, and sounds good while cranking. I’m guessing my valve shims are out of adjustment because of the slight wear on the cams I see and have yet to do the compression test until testing valve shin clearance. Still looking for the valve shim lock out tool. Also sourcing an engine is not easy as it seems, being in Northern California. Anyways thanks for reading I’ll add some pics and hope to get it running soon any suggestions or help is much appreciated and look forward to meeting you guys soon!

[v8volvo]

Welcome, sharp looking wagon! And a 6.2TD in a van with a modern transmission sounds like an interesting setup too. :D

Crank but no start with smoke is usually either glow plug issue or timing issue. Does it try to fire at all or just spin on the starter and do nothing?

You say you have 12V to the glow plug bus but do you know if the plugs themselves are good? You can check with ohmmeter or test light, or an inductive ammeter on the glow plug power supply wire. Should be roughly 12 amps per plug if you use that method so you want to see ~70A plus or minus. If it's less then you know you are down a few plugs and can do the calculation to figure out how many are working. These engines really like to have all 6 plugs working, will usually start OK but smoky with 5, will usually start on 4 but with struggle. If only 3 or fewer working plugs, often no start at all or if they do it requires great effort, depends on condition of engine and on altitude and temperature.

Timing marks line up means timing is "close" but it may still not be close enough to run, these are timed with a dial indicator procedure that is easy once you have done it but requires the right tools and attentive execution, getting it close with marks is often not enough. And it can be 180 degrees out with the marks still visually lined up! We have all done that one time or another.

Do you know the history of the car and when/how it last ran? Was it a good running car that got parked while still running well, and then you got it and are reviving it? Or did it run for you at some point before, then quit? Or, did it never start again after somebody attempted a timing belt replacement????

Valve clearance out of spec is a (long shot, theoretical) possibility for affecting starting but probably not as likely as the more common causes above. If it sounds good when cranking, i.e. even rhythm, then that probably means valve clearance is not an issue or at least not enough to matter for getting started. I wouldn't worry about that for now IMO.

[GWebie23]

Thanks v8volvo!

It is very clean, supposedly the previous owner parked it because of a bad brake line. However I did receive it with paperwork having a new head installed not too long before it was parked. It hasn’t ran for 20 years, I do suspect that is could be 180 out or off on timing on the injection pump because the previous owner handed me a set of use glow plugs. So I guess I’ll pull all the glow plugs and ohm them out and see from there but I don’t think it’s that because when cranking with electric fuel pump and a good 30 seconds which I generally never like to crank that long... the upper radiator hose was getting warm... indicating to me the block was warm enough to fire... so not sure but I’ll check plugs and about to order the dial indicator adapter for the injection pump. Still would like to check valve shims if I can find the tool.

[GWebie23]

Also I know he over heated it in the past to get the head put on, no signs of bad head gasket, also changed oil, and filter and even gave her a shot of ether to see if she would kick and not even a fire with the ether just stumbles like she’s about to kick and then slows down like I’m running out of cranking apps

[v8volvo]

Definitely don't want to use ether ever in these engines. Not even just a whiff of it. ESPECIALLY if the glow plugs are lit!!! I have a collection of shattered glow plugs on my shelf from people doing this on these engines and others like them (Ford IDIs, GMs, etc). Can also crack pistons, bend rods, bend or fracture crankshaft, blow head gasket, etc. It's the fastest and most effective way out there to turn a good engine into scrap metal!!

Same as a 6.2 or 6.5. These engines really, REALLY do not like ether. And there is no situation where ether will ever help. If the engine won't start and run on diesel, then it's not going to run on ether, as you already found out. So you get all the damage from ether and no benefit. These engines are extremely easy starting diesels when they are working right, and they are also extremely simple engines and easy to fix. If it won't start, you'll be able to figure out why without too much trouble.

Just some advice to avoid doing anything you will later regret. ;) You want to keep the ether far away from this engine at all times, no matter how tempting it might be. I will repeat, it can never help, only harm.

Timing 180 degrees out sounds like a possibility, though if that is true then it wouldn't have "run when parked". You say it smokes when cranking to start: does it smoke a lot? If so then you definitely have fuel flowing, but if not, then fuel injector prime is a question you could check by cracking lines open at the injectors.

Also, when you say timing marks are lined up, are you talking only about the mark on the injection pump lining up with the mark on the pump mounting bracket? What about the mark on the edge of the IP drive pulley? There is a notch on the pulley flange that should line up roughly with the IP timing mark with engine at #1 TDC.

If it definitely ran when parked, then timing being off is not too likely, but I would still rough-check it with the above method. That will not tell you if the exact setting is right but will at least tell you if it jumped a tooth.

If it ran when parked but doesn't start now, one more possibility is loss of ring seal from dry or stuck rings. This is very rare but we have seen it on engines now and then after sitting a long time. Solution is to do a compression test and/or add a little lightweight motor oil or ATF to the cylinders with injectors removed, then crank with injectors out to blow excess oil away and prevent hydrolock, then reinstall injectors and attempt starting again with the cylinders wet. If the issue is compression loss at the rings, this usually brings the engine instantly back to life.

[v8volvo]

If you want to just check the valve clearance, you don't need any special tools at all for that. Just a set of feeler gauges (preferably angled ones) and probably a new valve cover gasket, if the one you remove is the old 4-piece cork style. There is an updated reusable 1-piece rubber type you will want to upgrade to unless it already has one, which it might if the head was replaced at some point.

Adjusting the clearance by replacing the shims does require special tools (tappet depressor and special shim pliers, plus of course a selection of replacement shims in different thicknesses to change the clearance), but just checking the clearance is a 5 minute job with feelers only and will answer any questions about the valves. And you're right to want to look at it, at some point, since this is routine maintenance that is important to do.

But again, if it sounds like it has even compression when cranking, then valve clearance out of spec is a highly unlikely culprit for no-start. I would suggest getting the engine running first, then immediately getting ready to replace the 20+ year old timing belt (!!), THEN during that procedure when the valve cover is off for the belt job anyway, planning to check and if necessary adjust valve clearances. :)

[ngoma]

So I guess I’ll pull all the glow plugs and ohm them out and see from there...
If you have a non-contact (IR) thermometer you can save yourself from R/R the GPs (the rear ones are difficult access). Cycle the GPs a few times to get them hot, don't need to crank the engine. Hold the IR thermometer close to the GP and compare its temperature to the temp of the head further away. Should show a measurable difference if the GP is working.

Still would like to check valve shims if I can find the tool.
To check valve clearances all you need is a set of feeler gauges. That, and 10mm socket to remove the valve cover. Easy.

For cold engine:

Intake = 0.15 - 0.25mm (0.006 - 0.010 in.)
Exhaust = 0.35 - 0.45mm (0.014 - 0.018 in.)

[v8volvo]

If you have a non-contact (IR) thermometer you can save yourself from R/R the GPs (the rear ones are difficult access). Cycle the GPs a few times to get them hot, don't need to crank the engine. Hold the IR thermometer close to the GP and compare its temperature to the temp of the head further away. Should show a measurable difference if the GP is working.

Good idea.

[RedArrow]

Also you could plug in the electric coolant heater overnight, in case yours has that.

[19misha72]

Добрый день. Очень красивый универсал !!!
Volvo 245 diesel надо реанимировать.https://youtu.be/2zbv3gzgSqY

[GWebie23]

So I looked everywhere for an ir Thermo... thanks covid... you sold out at every harbor freight and raised the price from those things from like $15 to $50... gotta love capitalism... anyways I still couldn’t get it to fire in our NorCal heat wave of 106 degrees f. So I highly doubt this thing needs all the gps working at that ambient temp... am I wrong??? As of now I pulled the engine and trans in prep for an m54 swap if I can’t get the d24 running on an engine stand. I did find #6 gp bad, looking into the timing, and fixing the shitty wiring harness. I’ll setup a battery and electric fuel pump with a Jerry can you crank it over while it’s out... we’ll see what happens... here’s some pictures...

[ngoma]

So I highly doubt this thing needs all the gps working at that ambient temp... am I wrong???
Short Answer: Yes you are wrong.
Long Answer: Coming later when I have more time to answer.

[GWebie23]

Very well. I’m actually pleased to hear it could just be the one gp... either way it’s nice to pull it and clean everything, reseal and paint it before I stab it back in. But I will get it running before hand to make its still good, but all indications point to it should be fine internally.

Where are you guys ordering timing belt kits from... having a hell of a time finding the old style belt. I can get the tensioner for about $38. But the belt is another story...

[19misha72]

Добрый день. Если компрессия меньше 24кгс/см2 - то ремонт поршневой ,если VE6 дает меньше 300кгс/см2 - подготавливаемся к ремонту . Кольца ,поршневая ,вкладыши все есть в продаже. Каталоги и книги у вас все есть. D24 очень надежный двигатель и очень маленький расход качественного топлива на 100км - 6 литров . В бак помещается 60 литров. Я поеупаю детали на d 24 в вашей стране.
СЛЕДИТЕ ЗА РЕМНЕМ РАСПРЕДВАЛА ,ПРОВЕРЯЙТЕ НАТЯЖЕНИЕ РЕМНЯ и дешовый не ставте . Замена через 2 года. Впрыск ставится очень легко но нужны специальные ключи. VOLVO 240 серии очень хорший авто и НАДЕЖНЫЙ и еще это старинный и раритетный автомобиль OLDTIMERCARS. ВЫ должны его сделать и поверте когда он заведется и поедет с пробуксовкой ВЫ будете очень сильно радоваться . Volvo с дизельным мотором очень мало. Фильтр топлива не все подходят , слидите за тем ,что пакупаете, у d24 ВЫХОД ТОПЛИВА В СЕРЕДИНЕ и отверстие с резбой не должно светитмя на сквозь.

[19misha72]

Этот двигатель может называться по разному d24 ,dw ,cw ,1c и так далее и устанавливался на 3 фирмы автомобилей. Бензиновпя версия двигателя отличается только головкой ( 90 л.с. ). И каждая фирма выпускала свой каталог ( у одной детали очень много каталожных номеров ) с рисунками и книжками по ремонту.

[19misha72]

https://youtu.be/2zbv3gzgSqY

[ngoma]

So I highly doubt this thing needs all the gps working at that ambient temp... am I wrong???
Higher ambient temps can help ease starting issues but more important is compression, functioning GP system, timing, cranking RPMs.
Most of these engines need at least 5 working GPs, quite a few need all 6. Some few tip-top condition might get by with 4. Easy for us to rationalize that GPs are not really all that important, but real world experience tells us different.

To me, your situation looks like this:

Getting white smoke out the tailpipe-- a good sign you are getting fuel.

At least one bad GP. Have you tested all? Using jumper cables connected to battery, the GP tip should be glowing bright red at 10 seconds or less. Easy for you to remove GPs and test with engine out of car. ;)

Engine sat for 20 years. As v8volvo stated earlier, sticky/dry rings very possible. While you have the GPs out for testing, squirt 1/4 teaspoon motor oil (no more than this) in each hole. Might be easier if you rotate the engine sideways on the stand. Replace GPs with known good ones. Hand crank a few revolutions to avoid any possible hydrolock damage.

Bet it starts after that. Worked for me on a similar situation. Engine sat for several years. Good cranking speeds. White smoke out the tailpipe. (GPs were good.) Would not start, not even close. Tried for days. Dropped 1/4 tsp. motor oil in each injector hole (required new heat shields whenever R/R injectors). Engine fired up with a roar immediately on first cranking! Great runner after that.

[ngoma]

But I will get it running before hand to make its still good, but all indications point to it should be fine internally.
Agree with your process order

Where are you guys ordering timing belt kits from... having a hell of a time finding the old style belt. I can get the tensioner for about $38. But the belt is another story...
Old style? Not sure what you mean. I have been getting them easily from Autozone.
Tensioner? Isn't the water pump the tensioner?

https://www.autozone.com/ignition-tune-up-and-routine-maintenance/timing-belt/duralast-dayco-timing-belt-95083/707707_796337_2358

[GWebie23]

I removed all the gps and dropped a few splashes of marvel mystery down each one let it sit for a few minutes. As far as the gps go 5 out of 6 were at .6 ohms. had The one bad on number 6, I pick up the new one today in a few hours, still need to throw some diesel in a can and prime the fuel system. but it cranks over good.

The timing belt for some reason no local distributors are listing any belts. The older version I guess only has the one tensioner on the belt and not the second tensioner on the alternator side...

Previously when cranking, it smokes white well And definitely getting fuel, I had it hooked up to my XC90 while running to crank it over. And primed the gps 4-5 times before cranking to make sure they were nice and hot. It sputtered a few times and wouldn’t catch and run. I have a few videos of cranking but not sure how they will show up on here.


I’ll post them in a few.

[GWebie23]

And what she looks like without a pound of oil and grease dirt on it...

[ngoma]

Good work! Looks like a pressure washer job?

[binary___]

Nice to see one of the longer noses. My first car was a 1985 240 sedan with that upright grill. They are not that common any more.

[19misha72]

Good afternoon. Continue further. Do not remove the gears from the camshaft. Did you measure the compression in the cylinder ?

[GWebie23]

Ok so far, I have done a lot of just cleaning and organizing of the parts. I also rebuilt wiring harness on engine and of course painted lots of bits. Now that it’s out and all cleaned off I found the injection pump leaking at the shaft seal. After manually glowing gps for about 7 seconds 2-3 times it cranks but it dripping quite a bit on the block and flywheel. I’m afraid I’ll have to reseal the pump before it will fire... but she does look good...

[ngoma]

Yes as you imagined, a leaking IP input shaft seal can cause a no-start or hard start condition by allowing air intrusion. But your temporary low pressure electric fuel pump should really negate the chance for air intrusion and allow it to start if it's going to.

(Key is low pressure (3-5 PSI) fuel pump. Don't want to blow the rest of the IP seals.) :o

Place a catch can under the leaking IP.

Let's see, you've tested and have 6 good GPs, the GP system is working as designed, you've poured MMO into the cylinders, checked the valve clearances, verified the IP timing is at least in the ballpark-- Other forumers, help us out: What else are we missing here?

Question for you:
How tight is the IP belt? Should be able to easily twist it 45-90deg using just thumb and finger.

Too tight and it wears the bushing which will cause constant premature seal failures.

[GWebie23]

45-60 degrees flex on the belt, I’m just guessing sitting for so long and not ever having a mid pressure fuel pump and excessive cranking is causing the leak, also maybe the atf ate away at the old crusty seals a bit. I am getting good return on my return line, however when I crack open the injector lines at the injector I’m not getting any squirt... so I’m guessing the injection pump is either bypassing back to tank because I’m over pressure? Or I just blew a few seals in the pump and that’s my main issue.... I think .... After I pull the injection pump I’ll do a compression test on all 6 cylinders.

[ngoma]

... however when I crack open the injector lines at the injector I’m not getting any squirt... so I’m guessing the injection pump is either bypassing back to tank because I’m over pressure? Or I just blew a few seals in the pump and that’s my main issue.... I think .... After I pull the injection pump I’ll do a compression test on all 6 cylinders.
It won't squirt out of the opened injector lines but will pulse out in little driplets while cranking. Are you saying you are getting nothing out of the lines while cranking? If that is the case, it will never start.

Since engine is out of the car, no need to R/R the IP to change the input shaft seal. In fact it's better not to R/R the IP, to avoid changing the timing, and the belt tension. Also, disconnecting/reconnecting all the hardlines is not that pleasant either.
Do youself a favor and get one of these:

58430 Shaft Type Seal Puller (https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-tools/bearing-grease-and-seal/shaft-type-seal-puller)
You'll thank me later. :)

[GWebie23]

Not even a dribble of fuel coming out of the injection lines... Originally when it was in the car and I cracked the fuel lines it was pumping plenty of fuel to soak the injectors... but now that it’s out and I can crank and play with the injector lines and actually stand over the engine... no fuel... where are you guys getting parts... California hates these old cars and I can’t seem to find shit for this thing...

[ngoma]

Now we must turn to why the IP is not outputting the dribbles thru the hardlines while cranking with +12VDC applied to the fuel cutoff solenoid, and throttle held at WOT.

Good you have a low-pressure fuel pump plumbed in before the fuel filter, and are seeing solid (no bubbles) fuel out the IP OUT line. That tells us the IP itself should be purged of air.

If air was introduced previously, the hardlines may still be full of air, and it takes considerable cranking at WOT to clear them. Might take several minutes of 10 sec. cranking sessions (to keep from overheating the starter).

Next thing to check is proper operation of the fuel cutoff solenoid. Applying +12VDC to the solenoid terminal (and engine grounded) should produce a perceptible solid knock that you can hear and feel as it retracts. Same for when de-energizing.

Not so common, but even if the fuel cutoff solenoid appears to be functioning properly, there is a (slim) chance the plunger could be stuck. Then you remove the solenoid, remove the plunger (maintain cleanliness), and replace solenoid. NOTE: Make other plans for shutting off the engine: fully blocking the air intake, or using the manual kill lever if present.

Let us know what you find.

[GWebie23]

Its ALIVE!!!!! It’s Aaaallive!.... fuel shut off solenoid wasn’t getting 12v.... anyway she runs great!!! Thank you guys for all the help, I’m gonna stuff her back in tomorrow!

[ngoma]

Whenever I would complain to my dad that something was broken, his first question always was "Have you checked to make sure it's plugged in?" He was able to magically fix a lot of broken things simply by asking that question. :p

[v8volvo]

Its ALIVE!!!!! It’s Aaaallive!.... fuel shut off solenoid wasn’t getting 12v.... anyway she runs great!!! Thank you guys for all the help, I’m gonna stuff her back in tomorrow!

Whenever I would complain to my dad that something was broken, his first question always was "Have you checked to make sure it's plugged in?" He was able to magically fix a lot of broken things simply by asking that question. :p

:D Nice find, funny that's all it was after everything else. Goes to show us. I think the white smoke threw us all off. But maybe just enough fuel makes it past the shutoff plunger to make a tiny bit of smoke, even when that solenoid is not powered. No excuses, we shouldn't have overlooked it!

Glad you got it going, nice work. :cool:

Good opportunity while it's out of the car to refresh any old tired hoses, maybe the timing belts, etc... AND maybe any repairs to the old and probably crumbling wiring harness, which may have been the reason for no power making it to that IP solenoid. ;)

[ngoma]

I’m gonna stuff her back in tomorrow!
Forgot to say, in a 240, it's tremendously easier to change out the IP main seal while the engine is out of the car. In-car, it's right up against the firewall, no access. Actually should say it's impossible. So get the tool, and change out the seal while you have the engine out. Inspect the shaft carefully and clean off any stubborn buildup off the riding surface before installing the new seal. Make sure you get the right size seal.

[GWebie23]

Some pics after reinstall... and it fires right up... gotta hook up clutch cable, upper timing cover, thermostat, heater core hoses need to be replaced, and fill it with coolant, need to do the brakes and take it for a drive!

[ngoma]

With a leaky IP main shaft seal? :confused:

[19misha72]

Good afternoon. Never give up, the VOLVO D24 will thank you.
WATCH the CAMSHAFT BELT ( cheap belt breaks).
Good luck !

[GWebie23]

Yes it’s a small dribble out of the injection pump shaft seal. Not as bad as I originally thought. But yes, still searching for a seal kit for the injection pump and the timing belt... now dealing with the front right brake caliper that’s seized and won’t let loose of the rotor...

[ngoma]

Are you planning to do all the seals or just the main shaft seal?

[v8volvo]

If the answer to ngoma's question above is "yes" then the seal kit you need is Bosch DGK126. Should be on the shelf at any fuel injection rebuilder or easily found on ebay, so should not take you too much work to find. Make sure you get Bosch parts and not a cheap knock-off set, though. And you need the 17mm shaft seal which DGK126 should have. Watch out, as some other kits look similar but come with a 20mm shaft seal instead.

Replacing the rest of the seals is a finicky task though. It is a good idea to be sure you know exactly what you are planning to do before you take it apart, since you only get one chance to make the reference notes you will need in order to get it back together correctly where it will run the engine again. ;) Not rocket science by any stretch but set aside some time to do it carefully. And keep everything surgically clean -- you probably know that already.

The shaft seal by comparison takes some finesse but is no different in principle than doing any crank or camshaft seal. Still plenty of opportunity to have it go wrong, but the good part is it only goes together one way, unlike the rest of the pump.

[ngoma]

Moving this thread to "Help! My car died!" forum because it is 95% pertains to getting the engine running again.