big oil leak while engaging reverse gear

[dahicori]

Hello everyone,

Soo...the TB is done and the car was running perfect until yesterday (the motor has only 120K, the car is able to reach the top speed indicated in my green book (la revue technique ) which is 150km/H. Not a single drop of oil. And yesterday my brother was parking the car, he engaged the reverse gear (maybe it has nothing to do with the problem but it still looks odd..) she lost , I'd say maybe 0.5 liter of oil. There is so much oil. We pressed ignition several times, letting the mill running idle with some acceleration, nothing happened .

Also, when I plunge the oil stick , the indicator remains spotless! When I did the oil change, I put the exact same amount of oil that is indicated in the book. And i'm pretty sure I've never lost oil since yesterday . Is it possible that the oil gauge is not working..?

I'll take some pics of the suspicious spots on the engine.

Cheers :)

[RedArrow]

Hi,
Very good news that the timing belt job is done now! Feels good, doesn`t it?

You`ll now have safe cruising for another 5-8 years or about 60000miles (100k km).

Though, the top speed is not an indicator of a well done and successful (=safe) timing belt job :) ) It`s more like that they timed the injection pump right and set the engine pretty well for you to have good results in how it starts and runs... Probably your smoke is gone too and it runs happily with good power.

Are you by the way the forumer who was looking to find `an easy solution` (or a shortcut method?) to the timing belt job?
I am hoping, for the overall future health of your car, that you found someone who really did know how to do it properly. I mean a person who definitely applied enough torque on the crankshaft 27mm bolt.



To answer your question accurately and to provide useful advice (not just random ideas), we would need to know a couple of details!

I do not know how familiar you are with this engine and IDK how long you had the car so excuse me if I write something that sounds very `beginner` to you.
I have a couple of ideas that I`ll explain later in this longer reply.

Because very often there is a tiny simple secret behind the `problem`, such as a small mistake which a worrying car owner doesnt think about (or not at the moment when an issue suddenly pops up, right?).



First, you`d need to positively verify, what kind of fluid you are seeing?

What is the leak? Where exactly is it, in relation to the engine or transmission?

Is it definitely motor oil, thick and darker than for example diesel fuel?

I`m asking
because if you have a diesel fuel leak, it often does look like motor oil, due to the years old motor oil stains that may have been on the side(s) of the engine for some longer times and now diluted and removed by (for example) a leaking injection pump, a fuel line, etc, even the filter housing and its hoses can do that, or a leaky injector or a hard line on it.
So please double check carefully and make sure it is NOT a diesel fuel leak that looks like motor oil.

From your post it is also hard to tell if it may be transmission fluid. And because you are saying there was engaging into reverse when it happened, I`d like to not fully close out a tranny fluid leak. Is the car automatic by the way? Would be good to know.
I`m sure though that you could identify tranny fluid if you touched and smelled it.
Is your leak really motor oil? Tranny fluid can also appear to be as an oil leak IF the leaked out fluis washes off old oil and dirt from the surrounding area on the car.


My next question is,
can you track, spot, and see the exact source of the leak? Or is your engine pretty oily and wet from other fluids leaking sometimes?

There are a couple of types of fluid that can leak, such as power steering fluid, motor oil, diesel fuel, etc, just to mention a few.
Step one is to figure out what leaked and where it leaked (from).


I`d like to mention here that in some rare occasions there is a human mistake and it may be easy to `fix`.

Some stories here...
Once I was so excited to go on a multiple day fishing trip that after doing the final pre-trip check under the hood, I forgot to put back the oil cap. Sure enough it gave me a scary situation down the road, very soon, when I stopped and noticed the mistake. As the oil started getting forced out of the by then warmed engine, thru the top filler hole, I could see and smell fume.
So never close out a small human mistake and try to not think of something very serious.

In another occasion, after doing an oil and filter change, I had a long drive and getting home I saw some dripping oil under the oil pan. I thought I had an issue but it was only that the filter was not totally turned tight enough and let out some oil later when the car got hot and the oil became more `fluid`. Another easy fix...

Another time,
after doing valve adjustments, I saw some oil leaking at the driver side of my engine. As freaky as it sounds, and it did look like it was coming from the headgasket but it wasnt. When I reinstalled the vacuum pump after the valve job, I reused the seal that was in there but it moved around enough while out and the seal never made it back to its original position so it didnt seal well. At idle I didnt notice but when the car got warm it appeared as an oil leak. Easy fix. Small details always count.

BUT,
you are saying you had a leak that looks to be half a liter. That IS a lot of oil, we are talking about half of a 1qt bottle.


My other question is/are,

When they did the timing belt,
they probably reused the old valve cover gasket. What kind of gasket did they use? Some companies still sell the two-piece gasket, that, is junk.
this one is off-topic, but in the long run, you should have the 1 piece, rubber gasket.
So the question is, do you think it is possible that the valve cover is not tight enough?
Are you able to track alongside the top edges and figure out whether or not this may be the case?

Is your leak persistent or was it a one time thing?


Please verify about the leak asap, what fluid is it?

Reversing a car often involves turning the steering wheel all the way as we try backing up into tighter places. I can`t close out a leaky steering system but I HIGHLY doubt that is your issue.
But bc IDK details about your fluid leak, from what you explained, I need to come up with some ideas car unseen. :)
((Do you know whether or not the mechanic who did the TB also decided to replace front and rear seals, maybe?))



I bet you already located the leak and stopped it.
Is it a TD or is it a nonturbo engine?


To answer your other question, yes, it is possible that an oil gauge is not working, but I highly doubt it.

What do you see when you pull out the dipstick to check the oil level? Is the oil `missing`?
For your information,
there is 1liter difference between the minimum and maximum marks (COLD engine!).

Best of luck, and dont forget,
we are here to help.
Even if you figured it all out by now, still reply to this post so others can also learn from your story.

[dahicori]

Hey RedArrow,
Thank you very much for this answer, it really is heart-warming.

Yes, I was this very forumer ! I did the job with two friends, one of them was a good mechanic although not a D24 expert. We did it with the home-made tool you can see on the pic from my other topic. We did not have all the special tools. I now understand the use of these tools : you don’t spend your time to double-check every minute if you’re still at TDC. We took 8 hours to get the job done properly : I think that with all the tools, it could have been divided by 3!!

I define myself as a beginner with this engine and in mechanics in general, so thank you for the precautions.

I cannot be sure about the fluid as I do not know if transmission oil looks like motor oil.


Now, there is a lot of dripping oil under the pan.
It is very very greasy around the oil sensor . I could take pic today, I ll try tomorrow.

I remember having removed the relief valve of the oil pump (clapet de décharge in French, Im not sure about the English) , I did not change the gasket . It s very greasy underneath.

About the valver cover : yes, there is a small leak, I completely forgot to change that gasket and we used the old one and I promised to change it as soon as I could. It is greasy on the most detoriated part but I don’t see how it could explain such a loss of oil.

I drove the car back (one km) and I noticed nothing peculiar. Got it started a few time without noticing any leak.
When I pull out the dipstick , I can sea a little drop on the top of it, but that’s it. It is so strange!!

About the seals: are you talking about the crank seal? we did not change it…

The car is a manual 4+OD, NA.
Thanks a lot again. I ll try to do some cleaning and spot the leak properly!

[ngoma]

I cannot be sure about the fluid as I do not know if transmission oil looks like motor oil.
Being a diesel, the motor oil turns black very soon after the oil change. Manual transmission (M46, 4+OD) should be ATF type F, red in color, or SAE 30w, golden in color (darker brown if very old). Neither transmission fluid will be as black as the motor oil.

It is very very greasy around the oil sensor .

That is actually a good clue. Tells us it might be from:
1. (most common) Leaking vacuum pump o-ring gasket
2. Leaking valve cover gasket
3. Leaking head gasket (common head gasket leak location around #3 cylinder-- just under the vacuum pump).

I remember having removed the relief valve of the oil pump (clapet de décharge in French, Im not sure about the English) , I did not change the gasket . It s very greasy underneath.
Yes, another possible leak location

When I pull out the dipstick , I can sea a little drop on the top of it, but that’s it. It is so strange!!
If the car is on level ground, and you checked the dipstick after the engine has been off for over 10 minutes, then you are down about 2 litres, getting in the danger zone.

I ll try to do some cleaning and spot the leak properly!
Great idea; that is your best approach at this point. Clean well the engine so you will more easily be able to see where the leak(s) is coming from. Remember that usually the leaking oil flows from top to bottom, and the wind will blow it from front to rear.

[dahicori]

I started the cleaning.

There was a nice little pond of oil on the intake manifold. Must be that head gasket that was in shred and has not been replaced. I will finish the cleaning, change the gasket, and see what happens.

I am still concerned about the dipstick because i remember that while checking the level after the oil change, It remained spotless.

My odometer takes vacations now and then, my fuel gauge doesnt work, I was hoping I could still now the amount of oil that runs the motor. But no!:(

I hope i did not put back too much oil after this loss of oil because of that stupid stick!

[ngoma]

I am still concerned about the dipstick because i remember that while checking the level after the oil change, It remained spotless.
Maybe we are misunderstanding you. Are you saying that there is no oil on the dipstick?

[dahicori]

Yes , that's it! But I dont see how a dipstick could fail at doing its job?! It would definitly means that I lost 4 liters of oil lately, without noticing anything?

[ngoma]

There has to be a big leak or leaks somewhere there...

[dahicori]

https://i.imgur.com/zMB5HSS.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/DX7lh5p.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hDCFrDE.jpg

[RedArrow]

You were talking about losing 4 liters of motor oil and I don't even think it's possible because of a leaky valve cover gasket. It's just a huge amount of oil!!!!

Dont drive the car until you fully clean the engine to figure it all out.
The total oil capacity is 7liters and if you lost 4 you are in some deeper trouble.

Any chance you replaced a motor mount at your timing belt job and lifted/supported engine by jacking oil pan (and maybe cracked that)??

We have no idea until you confirm :
-what exactly happened
-where the source of the leak is.
-how much oil is gone
-is it really still leaking?

UNCLEAR TO ME what do you see when you pull out the dipstick to wipe it then insert it again and pull it out again?

Try to see if the bottom of the dipstick *tube* is wobbly a bit. There's an o ring in there too that fails over time. Every d24 i had, needed it changed. But it wont make you lose 4liters of oil SO QUICKLY.

Fully clean the motor to start with.

Another question, again, are you totally sure that it IS in fact motor oil?

[dahicori]

Sorry, something went wrong with the text.
I wanted it to go with the pictures.

I put back about 2 and a half liters and the stick shows approx half capacity filled. I went zany with the stick, sorry for that!

I cleaned the motor, the above pics shows the new leaks. There is one around the cover gasket, but i changed the valve cover gasket before. Maybe camshaft seal?

On the second pic, we can see oil coming from somthing around the water pump I guess..?

I have to double check everything. The dripping does not happen while the motor remains idle...

something else : I noticed some oil in the intake, not a lot, more like dusty residue ...



oil pan remained clean, we did not jack it up.

[RedArrow]

I put back about 2 and a half liters and the stick shows approx half capacity filled.

I cleaned the motor, the above pics shows the new leaks.

On the second pic, we can see oil coming from something around the water pump I guess..?

I have to double check everything. The dripping does not happen while the motor remains idle...



I have to say, and I`m sorry for saying it: that engine is absolutely not cleaned yet :))) and unfortunately it is very hard to guess anything from the pictures you are showing. Maybe you could take better pictures and from other angles?


Please note:

All of this will sound very basic to you but believe me it is worth mentioning bc it is important:

The dipstick has the marks which are MINIMUM and MAXIMUM, yes.

but

it is not the minimum amount and the maximum amount in terms of capacity. It`s rather THE minimum level* you must maintain
AND THE maximum level that you should not exceed, as suggested by the factory.

The difference between the two marks is exactly 1 liter worth of motor oil!

IF/when the dipstick shows `maximum oil level` , that means you have plenty of motor oil inside the system, at full `suggested capacity` which is EXACT 7liters (=7.4 US Quarts) and that`s the perfect amount of oil to have in these engines (all of this is measured on a confirmed COLD engine and car parked on LEVEL ground)

and

the minimum mark on the dipstick refers to a current oil volume of 7-1=6 liters. There is no harm done if you run the engine with the engine oil levels down to not lower than that minimum mark.

((There is also no engine harm if if you ran the engine a little bit overfilled, by about 0.5-0.75 liter worth of oil on top of the maximum mark on dipstick.
Some cars with low compression and very cold climate may benefit from that, especially if there`s lots of coldstarts on a regular basis.))


Oil in the intake is not a sign of something very bad unless it is a huge amount of oil and constantly filling the intake up as you see oil `going missing` at a higher rate through driving a few hundreds of miles only.


If you needed to add 2.5 liters of engine oil to reach half way up on the dipstick, that is telling me that you were 1.5 liters BELOW the minimum level. Follow me... if you are at half way on dipstick, that means you have 7-0.5liters=6.5 liters in the motor *now*. That means you ONLY had 4 liters in the motor before you filled it with some 2.5 liters. Right? That`s a lot of oil to be `missing`.

Now, before you drive it again, you MUST figure out right away, what caused this low level and how and where it is happening.

Do not drive this car for a single mile before you solve this issue.


QUESTION:
When was the timing belt job?
I`m asking bc you should be able to figure out this:

- how long it took for the oil level to go down this low.
(measured in time and measured in miles driven)

That would give an accurate guess about how serious the leak is.
Maybe you took note of the odometer miles before or after you did the front belt?


Anyway. If you totally clean the engine, you will finally be able to spot the leak and start fixing the issue.

[ngoma]

((There is also no engine harm if if you ran the engine a little bit overfilled, by about 0.5-0.75 liter worth of oil on top of the maximum mark on dipstick. Some cars with low compression and very cold climate may benefit from that, especially if there`s lots of coldstarts on a regular basis.))
Not sure I agree with this but I am open to learning new things every day. What is your reasoning that overfilling the crankcase helps low compression or cold starting conditions?

I will agree that overfilling the crankcase can sometimes help build oil pressure sooner on cold start, usually where the oil pressure buildup gets delayed when a worn oil pressure relief valve allows overnight oil drainback from the oil pickup tube. Thicker oil viscosity has been known to help this situation also.

[dahicori]

Hello everyone. I stayed away for a while. I'm back to my hometown and my lovely blue wagon.

First off I'm sorry I completly forgot to answer you back, RedArrow. I ran the car 1000 miles between the time I did the job on the TB.
It took one month for the oil to go that down.
So I put the car on jack stands, warmed up the motor , made it run on several gears.

I changed the head gasket.
It was new, but old. When the ex-owner gave it to me, one could see some rust colour on the eyelets. I could not have the round rim stick to the head right away when I put it.

Here is a photo.

https://i.imgur.com/Lafyucb.jpg
Another important thing. I forgot to ask my friend who take the pic to give it to me afterwards, but some oil came BEFORE the leak you can see on the above pic , it was dripping on the pan and it came from the clutch bell (it has nothing to do with the matter; but I nearly lost a finger while tracking the leak on this spot, i felt the flywheel "pat" my finger :eek:)

I will post the pic from this other leak later in the morning.

[dahicori]

Here is the pic of the first leak spotted .

https://i.imgur.com/IGSxEAf.jpg

I called my volvo mechanic today, he is back to work! He told me it must be from a bad cork (yes, cork!) gasket which is located beneath the metal framework . I cant find the reference of that gasket on the web...if you have any idea, let me know.

Edit : I found the cork gasket.

Now about the above photo: I think it could be the pan gasket?!

[RedArrow]

I would never fail to check and check recheck then check and check oil levels for that long, especially after such a major repair (timing belt or a seal etc)

Well, still, 2.5liters (almost 3 quarts) is a huge amount of oil.

But this oil didn`t get lost (or eaten up), at least not overnight.

I would keep an eye out all the time and watch the oil level strictly on a regular basis with every 50miles driven. If you do have an existing leak then that`s the way to go. Or, fixing the source of the problem, if there is any.

I would suggest fully completely clean the entire engine as step #1 and try maintaining the cleanliness of the engine, at all times.

this can be your best friend to be able to spot it (in time) when something goes wrong.

[RedArrow]

Here is the pic of the first leak spotted .

https://i.imgur.com/IGSxEAf.jpg

I called my volvo mechanic today, he is back to work! He told me it must be from a bad cork (yes, cork!) gasket which is located beneath the metal framework . I cant find the reference of that gasket on the web...if you have any idea, let me know.

Edit : I found the cork gasket.

Now about the above photo: I think it could be the pan gasket?!



I think if your mechanic said `cork` then he was referring to a cork-type old-school low-quality valve cover gasket (which is shit BTW. even when brand new! do not ever use those, I would suggest to not. Buy the correct type, a 1-piece RUBBER valve cover gasket)

I kind of doubt that the oil pan gasket was responsible for your low oil level levels. You had a very low level. If all of that oil left through an oil pan gasket then you would see the entire lower end covered, including the undercarriage towards the rear of the car, and it would look shiny, oily and black and would be a fresh looking, active, constant leak.


I would look and confirm a few small details:
-motor oil filter is not loose and seals right ( you can gently tighten it a little more)
-tighten valve cover in the correct sequence you can find in the greenbook, not overthightening it is important but you can tighten it a little more to achieve a better seal)
-inspect the oil pressure/level sender plug and the area around it
-wash the engine and keep it super clean so you could* see IF it was the front or rear seal (rarely leaking but not impossible to have)
-monitor the oil pan gasket once the engine is clean, in case you think it leaks
-clean, inspect and recheck daily the area around and under the vacuum pump (sometimes leaks)
-try to see, on a very clean engine, IF IF the source of the leak is from where the block meets the cylinder head (highly doubt it but on a clean engine you easily monitor everything!) Again, I would call a thorough engine wash priority number #1, also a daily check of oil level, before and after every single drive (COLD&cooled ENGINE)

Without these, you can`t be sure of anything. And, why would you even think of something more complicated before finding the actual reasons why the oil was `missing` (low oil level)

PS. changing the oil pan gasket is very easy on an engine stand but definitely it is a nightmare when done in-car, because
-you wanna make sure you do it right, the pan is held in place by a series of very different bolts that are easy to mismatch and mix up (can cause damage)
-both mating surfaces of the block and the pan need to be very clean before you can add the gasket and that is a messy task bc of rules of gravity (oil keeps `coming` down once engine is opened)
-access is very limited and this gasket redo is not a quick job

So bc of all of those above, I would postpone replacing this gasket.
We cant stress it enough that having a perfectly clean engine now is your best way to diagnose. Easiest, cheapest and probably the most effective method. I don`t know if you have a real issue or not, nobody can really know. If the oil level goes low again then I wouldn`t drive the car at all until the source of leak is verified, or until the cause of the missing oil is found. We really want to hear the good news that it was just a little leak story, send us updates.

When the car drove plenty miles, if you opened the oil filler cap on a running engine, what do you experience? Is there an excessive blowby? What about pulling the dipstick out a little bit when the very warm engine is running?

[ngoma]

Now about the above photo: I think it could be the pan gasket?!
Rear main seal?

[v8volvo]

Here is the pic of the first leak spotted .

https://i.imgur.com/IGSxEAf.jpg

I called my volvo mechanic today, he is back to work! He told me it must be from a bad cork (yes, cork!) gasket which is located beneath the metal framework . I cant find the reference of that gasket on the web...if you have any idea, let me know.

Edit : I found the cork gasket.

Now about the above photo: I think it could be the pan gasket?!

I think that could all be from the one leak at the valve cover gasket. Leaking in through the top of the bellhousing and out the bottom. I would start with fixing that and getting everything washed off and cleaned up well, then see where things go from there.

Be sure to use the rubber one-piece type, not another cork one for that valve cover gasket! And also make sure all the studs are screwed all the way into the head so that their shoulders are sitting flush on the surface. If they are partially unscrewed it will prevent the gasket from clamping down and sealing up.

[ngoma]

OK now I see it, the small river running down from the corner of the VC. I missed it at first, must have been fixated on the MB oil cap. :p

Here I have enhanced your photo to show:
1722

Agree, new rubber VC gasket, get everything cleaned up, check for additional leaks.

[dahicori]

thanks again everyone for taking interest in my sick N/A D24 :p


I really appreciate your recomendations about how to take steps in the most clear way possible
The enhanced photo is perfect!

To answer your questions Red Arrow, I never noticed excessive blowby while taking off the cap. I never tried that dipstick removal idea.

So, I'm putting away the pan gasket lead.
Now I was thinking.

- when I put pack the metal stick that sticks to the VC gasket, It could not stick right off, one of them was well bent . Would it possible that its distortion may be the cause of the failure from gasket?

- I completly forgot to tell you about what happened two weeks before I realised that something went wrong : the oil indicator was flickering, but in a very strange way - just when I was on low gear + when I would take a corner "aggresively", and I thought it could not indicate a serious oil problem.

And now i can tell you that the oil does'nt leak when the motor remains idle. Last time I put the car on the jack stands, and it started to flow when i started to give it more revs...

would it be an oil pressure problem..?

But for now, I will listen to your avices and start an advanced cleaning!

edit : V8volvo, Sorry in advance because it will sound stupid, but the word "stud" is unclear to me in the mechanical vocabulary. I am not so sure to what you are referring to.

[RedArrow]

The metal sticks that hold down the valve cover, are made to be `bent`, this way they hold the cover better and more equally when the nuts get torqued down.

When you reinstall the metal strips, clean them first (they often hold sand and oily dirt) then make sure the two ends of the banana are in the UP position, pointing to the sky, while the middle area with the hump should be facing the ground/cyl head.

Also, the `studs` v8volvo mentioned are the threaded `bolts`in the top of the cyl head. They are what the valve cover nuts will be clamping on. Before you even place the valve cover on the studs, make sure these studs are all tightly screwed into the cylinder head and confirm that none of them are loose (but don`t use grabbing pliers to check this bc that will hurt the thin -and 35years old- threads). If you happen to find one of them loose, use two nuts tightened against each other and drive the stud in all the way. This is only important if you have a loose stud because otherwise the `shoulder` of the stud can push the valve cover up at the particular stud and that would result a bad seal of the gasket and in some cases it would let oil leak out (as v8volvo also suggested).
Note: not all d24 motors have the same kind of valve cover stud, I believe 2 or 3 variations exist. Greenbook mentions this at some point. If I find it, I`ll take a snapshot for you. The idea is that before you install the valve cover, you do these `safety` steps to make sure it won`t leak because of a loose stud pushing the gasket `up`.

Follow the tightening sequence which is found in the Greenbook manual, I like to do it in 3 stages and arrive at the final torque (very low torque btw) only at the last round of tightening. This can help making sure your valve cover is held very well and with equal torque on each and every nut. It`s nice to lay the new gasket on a perfectly clean top surface of the cylinder head and I usually achieve that using brake cleaner sprayed on a lint-free microfiber towel (or papertowels) then use my fingers to work old dirt, oil, or corrosion from studs etc off. Petrol works too or diesel fuel but none should end up in the motor oil for obvious reasons. Remains of diesel also need to be wiped off well. In case of rust, don`t use a wire brush because dirty particles or even parts of the wire can land in the motor oil, then :( ... Also worth inspecting the inner surface of the v.cover itself, check for corrosion (at the edges, also the sealing surfaces `above` the gasket. Wipe that entire area clean).


About the oil leak you have.
If you think it was the valve cover then the new gasket and properly tightened nuts will cure your oil problem.

(If it was not the valce cover, Can it be the rear seal? It could be but we don`t know for now, so don`t think of it for now. What makes me think of that seal? You mentioned that your engine leaks more when RPMS are higher than idle, cornering, or on jack etc.) Good news is that in your pictures the visible leaks are at a higher spot--- my bets are on the valce cover.

off-topic question: do you consider checking your valve clearances too, since the v.cover is already off?

[dahicori]

Ok, I understand now! Your greenbook seems way more precise than my revue technique , I can not find a specified torque for the VC.

If the culprit is the rear gasket, It looks like it will be a difficult operation for a beginner, moreover when done without a car lift, isn'it?

Yes, I thought about it, but I dont hear any weird click , and the motor runs very happily. I already checked the clearance of the rocker arms on a basic 4 cylinders - gasoline, but I suppose it will require some specific tools on the volvo !

[dahicori]

Hello everyone.

Some fresh news to start with: The VC leak is no more a problem and it was definitly the main culprit.

My mechanic spotted a second leak. Just around the crank pulley around the pan gasket.

I definitly dont loose much oil with but this involves some silly complications like I cant park the car in front of the house, which is a pain in the ass when it comes to use the brick for the "mini-fret"!

He told me that gasket is one the the worse operation to be done on this car : it involves removing of the all timing ....he spoke about 15 hours of work, and he cannot do it for the 4 following months as he has been through serious hands condition.

Now I feel depressed about it...what do you say? Has anybody already experimented this operation?

[RedArrow]

Maybe you could contact the french member Michaelovich here? He also has a YT channel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXT-zo60Kp4&list=LL&index=5&t=0s

[v8volvo]

Some fresh news to start with: The VC leak is no more a problem and it was definitly the main culprit.

That is good news! Nicely done.

My mechanic spotted a second leak. Just around the crank pulley around the pan gasket.

...

He told me that gasket is one the the worse operation to be done on this car : it involves removing of the all timing ....he spoke about 15 hours of work, and he cannot do it for the 4 following months as he has been through serious hands condition.

How big is this other leak and is he SURE it is coming from that area of the engine? Can you show a picture of what it looks like?

And does he think it is from the oil pan gasket, or the oil pump/front cover gasket, or the front main cranshaft oil seal? Those would be the three main possibilities for where an oil leak in this part of the engine could come from. The second two on that list would require the engine timing system to be taken apart, yes. But none of them are really that terrible of a job. Is the timing belt getting wet with oil? That would narrow it down to the crankshaft oil seal.

The hardest one of the three is the front cover gasket since that one does require the whole front of the engine (timing parts) apart plus the oil pan dropped, tough to do in the car, but can be done if the crossmember is lowered. ngoma had a writeup here of the procedure somewhere from when he and I tackled one together years ago on a 900 series, with some pictures, you might be able to search for it and find it. If you work very carefully you can do it without having to completely retime the engine, by checking IP timing before engine disassembly with a dial indicator and then confirming after reassembly that it has not changed at all. That can save a little bit of time, as long as the person doing it understands exactly what is going on.

But first task is to figure out exactly where the leak is coming from and figure out a plan from there. :) And there is still a chance it is residual coming from the valve cover gasket leak! You might need to wash the whole engine to make sure you can find the source.

The idea of looking up michaelovitch is a good one, he seems to not be on here as much as he used to be but he would certainly be a good connection to have if you are anywhere near him.

[dahicori]

this leak in not that big but still a problem to be solved for sure!!

I'll try to take a clean picture tomorrow or the day after ( I have a foot strain)

He definitly mentionned the front cover gasket. He told me the easiest way to dot it would be to take out the block from the car, but he added that by doing so, I will simply destroy the wiring harness as all the plastics and wires are rotten (car parked in a garage, but still didnt run for 10 years)

I will try to reach mickaelovitch, I know he lives kind of far from my place (France cannot stands comparison with US when it comes to dimensions, but still we can have long trips inside our borders :D)

[v8volvo]

this leak in not that big but still a problem to be solved for sure!!

I'll try to take a clean picture tomorrow or the day after ( I have a foot strain)

He definitly mentionned the front cover gasket. He told me the easiest way to dot it would be to take out the block from the car, but he added that by doing so, I will simply destroy the wiring harness as all the plastics and wires are rotten (car parked in a garage, but still didnt run for 10 years)

I will try to reach mickaelovitch, I know he lives kind of far from my place (France cannot stands comparison with US when it comes to dimensions, but still we can have long trips inside our borders :D)

I think you will want to check carefully to confirm that is where the leak is. He is right that it is a pretty serious job to repair it, and in some ways, removing the engine might be the easiest way. He is also right that that might do some damage to a fragile old engine wiring harness -- although on these old diesels the wiring is so simple that repairing harness problems is not that big of a deal, especially on a 240 with a non-turbo engine. There are only about 6 wires total in that harness anyway so you could even build a whole new harness from scratch in just a few minutes if you had to. :)

However, is this a small, slow leak or is it a very large leak where oil is flowing rapidly out when the engine is running? The front cover holds *pressurized* oil inside the engine, not just low-pressure oil, since what we are referring to as the "front cover" is actually the oil pump housing. The only times I have ever seen that oil pump gasket leak, it has been in a way where pressure is escaping and this results in a very fast leak. That was the case, for example, for the one that ngoma and I replaced years ago with the engine still in the car. It had a crack in the gasket on the pressure side, and the leak was so bad that the engine could only be run for a few seconds at a time, or else it would have pumped all the oil out onto the ground!

If what you have is a slow leak, where it's just a little wet, then I still think you might be dealing with a different source that is running down to it. Like the valve cover gasket.

[dahicori]

thank you for the reassuring analysis! I can confirm that it is a small leak : the level has barely dropped and I drove 150km bw the oil add and the check. But still, it is real dirty and on a big drip, i will for sure notice that this problem is to be taken seriously.

Also one "good news" : power steering became very very hard two days ego. oil level was OK when I bought the car. The reservoir was totally empty, the white ATF oil must has been mixed with some dirt or engine oil and maybe it was responsible for the little oil pond I discovered weeks ago. Do you know what is generally responsible for that can of leak? I hope that my steering rack is okay. I heard it s a pain in this ass to change it!

[ngoma]

power steering became very very hard two days ego. oil level was OK when I bought the car. The reservoir was totally empty, the white ATF oil must has been mixed with some dirt or engine oil and maybe it was responsible for the little oil pond I discovered weeks ago. Do you know what is generally responsible for that can of leak? I hope that my steering rack is okay. I heard it s a pain in this ass to change it!
Sorry have to keep repeating: To find any leak source (unless it is totally obvious) you must CLEAN WELL THE AREA. Clean until it is DRY. NO traces of oil, grease, dirt, or other fluids. THEN you can observe where the leak comes from.

FOR YOUR CURRENT SITUATION with a PS system leak that means clean the PS pump, the hoses, and the rack. Then you can describe to us what you see. We cannot tell you what is leaking otherwise. Thank You! ;)

[RedArrow]

It`s been six weeks :)

I agree that he should get the engine cleaned, completely. Wash it until nothing is left on it, no dirt, no oil, nothing; get the entire engine compartment fully cleaned up.
It is very very very cheap and easy to do that and in comparison to newer cars it is also much safer with less complications. And plenty of space.

And posting good quality pictures would be tons of help, too; or uploading a youtube video (or more) for the forumers to see.

[dahicori]

you're so right. Jumping out of the basics is the story of my life. So I will do that at first as soon as I can. I was trying to identify if my rack is a ZF or a cam gear, but I should start with the cleaning.

[dahicori]

Hello! Some news of my everlasting leaks

I didnt have to look too far to understand my PS leak. I remove the left boot and it was full of fresh oil. Some gasket in the inside must be damaged. A few months ago, I hit a roudabout, the rack did not appreciate the encounter with this piece of concrete, for sure. Plus, the ball joints are dead, so is the axial joint...a second hand rack in good condition worth 70€ so I bought it from the junkyard.


The replacement looks like a straightforward job, but if you have any tip, would be glad to hear :)

Ps : maybe I should write a new post about that, as it differs from the initial subject?

Have a good day.

[RedArrow]

Sounds like your car needs a couple of weekends of attention, but all of the old volvos do. I wonder, you found a diesel in the wrecking yard?

[dahicori]

yes, in France one can find as much diesels as gasoline volvos. I'd say there is even more D24 equipped cars than B200 etc

[RedArrow]

That is very nice. I think in the USA it is probably 1 diesel out of 300 volvos junked. Maybe even rarer than that.

[ngoma]

Ps : maybe I should write a new post about that, as it differs from the initial subject?
Yes, please start a new post, in an effort to make it easier for future members to find appropriate information.

[dahicori]

hello eveyone!

I'm coming back, with my usual leaks. I dont remember if I announced it before but the big VC gasket is solved. . So Im pretty sure there is NO oil coming from the top.

I can locate the new leak. But it seems to be near the water pump?! Any idea? :eek:

https://i.imgur.com/750XbKI.jpg

[ngoma]

Im pretty sure there is NO oil coming from the top.
That's a good size leak. If you are certain that it's not leaking from the VC gasket there in the front corner, that leaves two possibilities:

1. Head gasket, although mainly the higher pressure oil passages are located in the area under the vacuum pump.

2. Front camshaft seal.

Can you take better photos? Shine a strong flashlight right up there into the source when you take the photo to illuminate it better.

[dahicori]

hello ngoma

here is the best view I can get. I removed the timing housing and . You can see the water pump. with its blue grease.

https://i.imgur.com/Cc5nUwp.jpg

[ngoma]

That photo is not helping either. The light helps but the important region is too much out of focus.

[v8volvo]

Is that a droplet of black oil hanging on the bottom of the water pump? Or is it something else? It's fuzzy to see.

If there is lots of oil coming out around the big aluminum housing on the bottom front of the engine, but no oil above there, then it could be the gasket for that aluminum front cover (which is actually the oil pump housing).

But it looks like it's running down from above. Are you 100% certain it is not the valve cover gasket. Do you have the single piece rubber type gasket, or the 4 piece cork and rubber set? Are all the valve cover nuts snug, especially the ones at the front?

It could be leaking from the corners of the valve cover gasket where it makes a sharp transition to go up and over the front cam bearing cap. That is also the location where different pieces of the 4-piece gasket set meet each other, if that is what you have, and they are especially prone to leaks there.

It would also be good to remove the upper timing belt cover and make sure the timing belt is not soaked with oil. That may give you a better view of some of the areas in question too.

[dahicori]

ngoma : Okay, I will try video when the weathers will improve a little bit (it s raining cats and dogs outside for the moment)

v8volvo:

Yes, I it's the bottom of the water pump. And yes i'm absolutely certain there is no oil coming from valve cover gasket. I removed the upper timing belt cover to get more light for that photo. And there is nothing coming out the camshaft sprocket, the belt is oil-free the droplet start to shine at the spot one can see on the photo.