Tropical Fan Clutch vs....D24 Fan

[DieselScout]

Does the Aisin Tropical Fan Clutch pull more air over the radiator when engaged, compared to the direct driven fan on the D24 NA?

Also, any idea why the D24T was equipped with a fan clutch and the D24 NA was not?

[v8volvo]

The direct driven fan will move at least as much air as any clutched fan, if not more. The tropical fan clutch (or any fan clutch) can only ever spin the fan as fast as the belt will drive it. In other words, the direct driven fan always runs at the same speed that would be the maximum possible speed of any fan with a viscous clutch, tropical or not. In still other words, when the fan clutch is engaged, a clutched fan BECOMES a direct driven fan. ;) The difference is just that the clutched fan has the ability to disengage the fan drive in low cooling demand situations (e.g. light load and cool ambient weather), when extra airflow from the fan is not needed, whereas a direct driven fan runs at all times when the engine is turning, regardless of whether fan operation is actually needed or not.

Adding a clutched fan to a 240 would be an upgrade in the sense that it would make the car run a little quieter when the fan is not engaged, and would maybe give a very marginal fuel economy benefit also when not engaged. But it wouldn't add anything to the engine's ultimate cooling capability versus the direct driven stock setup, and when the clutch is engaged the other two benefits would not apply either. There would be no cooling performance advantage from adding a clutched fan, tropical or not, if that is the reason for considering it.

Why the 7 series got the clutch fan and the 2 series did not? Good question, who knows. Might have mainly had to do with cost, as the 7 series had a higher sticker price and might have had more room in the budget for extra features aimed at refinement like a viscous clutch for the fan (or a turbo on the diesel engine which the 240 also never got). It might have had to do with the available space in front of the engine also, maybe the direct fan is a little slimmer and fits the tighter 240 engine bay better, but then again I think some people have bolted 740 viscous clutch fans onto 240 diesels with no fitment problems so that seems less likely. :confused:

[DieselScout]

Would the D24T fan (7 blade) pull more air through the radiator than the D24 NA fan (5 blade)?

[v8volvo]

Probably would move more air, it is a more modern and quieter fan blade design also.

I don't know how you would adapt it to the direct driven D24 fan hub though, unless you added the viscous clutch also. The 740 style fan has wider spaced mounting points for attaching to the outer perimeter of the viscous clutch unit and wouldn't bolt directly onto the skinny hub spacer from the D24.

But you do raise a good point: maybe swapping in the complete 700 series D24T viscous fan setup would actually improve cooling capability, not because of the viscous clutch drive, but because of the different fan blade section itself. I hadn't thought of that.

Only one way to find out -- try it and let us know! If you have trouble finding a D24T fan setup, the fan blade is identical to what is used on any gasser 4cyl 240 or 740 so you could harvest one of those from a JY also.

[DieselScout]

I tried the B230F fan (1317465), which is also listed as the same fan for the d24T and it is slightly too large to fit in the D24 240 engine bay. It measures 16" (406mm)

I noticed that there are two other fans listed for the D24T engine, 1257443 (380mm/15 inches) and 1274964 (430mm/17 inches). The latter will be too large, but can anyone confirm if the former (1257443) will fit in the 240 D24 engine bay?

[v8volvo]

Where was the interference with the 16" one you tried that didn't fit? Was it too large in diameter for the shroud? How close was it to fitting?

What is the inner diameter of the shroud?

I'll measure one of the D24T fans I have and see what the size is.

[RedArrow]

Idk if it helps but I measured on my d24t car

Rotor diameter is 15 inches (fifteen)
Opening in fan shroud is 16.75 inches in diameter horizontally.

Though this rotor does not run perfectly aligned in the very center.
There is 0.5 inch clearance in the bottom and 1.25 on top (between rotor and edge of shroud)
1 1/2 on pass side and 0.5 on driver side (left)

But i may not have the original d24t rotor...idk.

[Profpinz]

For the last couple of months I've been testing my rebuilt Steyr Puch Pinzgauer which uses the D24Tic motor.

The Pinzgauer is known to overheat in stock form in hot conditions, so like the Malaysian Military Pinzgauers I fitted a solid fan (no viscous coupling) and a locally built large-core radiator which should be excellent in the summer in the Aussie Outback ......however I think I over did it :)

It's winter here in Melbourne, Australia and unfortunately I can't get the motor temperature past about a third on the gauge, so I think I need to fit a viscous coupling.
I was surprised at the cost of a new factory viscous unit, but was wondering if anyone knew if it was fitted in any other vehicles?

Australia never got any vehicle fitted with the D24 so it would have to be a vehicle that didn't use that motor.

Thanks!

[ngoma]

Based on your description, the thermostat or temperature gauge are suspect before the direct-coupled fan.

Thermostat should remain closed until nearing operating temperature, disallowing any real cooling effect, regardless of what the fan is doing. With no coolant flowing thru the radiator, the fan has little effect on engine temp.

Easy to test tstat in a pan of heated water with a thermometer on the stove.

BTW, what temp. tstat is installed?

Additionally, the temperature gauge may be lying to you. Easy to test with an IR thermometer aimed near the tstat sensor.

But remember, these IDI diesel engines don't generate much heat unless under load. IOW, simply idling in cold weather may not bring the engine up to operating temp. for a long time.

What is your testing method?

Check recent posts, someone with a similar situation (either a Pinz? or VW LT?) suffered months with their perceived temperature problems before discovering it was a faulty temp gauge. ;)

[Profpinz]

Thanks for the reply ngoma.

The thermostat is brand new (the only temperature range thermostat available from the factory) and the gauge has been rebuilt by a VDO representative company, so I was fairly confident of the "measuring accuracy" but I will recheck them all as you suggest.

Do you know the "Off the Shelf" Part Number of the Thermostat?
Mine came in a factory Pinzgauer box, and stupidly I didn't check if it had a Part Number on it, but I'd be interested in seeing what other temperate ranges are available.

[ngoma]

I have a Wahler box w/ PN 4116.87D

Stock is 87degC
Some run 80degC tstat to help get a control on spiraling temperatures in hot conditions/marginal cooling systems/sustained heavy loads.

[Profpinz]

Thanks for the info ngoma
The unit I have fitted is a Wahler 075 121 113D 80 degree, so I suspect as it is winter here and quiet cold (by our standards, no necessarily European standards :) ) that given the thermostat is opening relatively early and with the improved radiator/solid fan etc capabilities its never really getting up to temperature.
I've ordered an 87 degree unit so will see how that goes.
Maybe for my outback trips where temps can be in the 40's (C), I'II need to change over to the 80 degree unit.
Thanks and Regards,

[v8volvo]

When you say it's never getting up to temperature, is that in the sense of never reaching the midpoint on the gauge?

That middle point might be an arbitrary reading so not a worry if it doesn't get there. Maybe 1/3 is right where you want it. Especially if the stock Pinz tstat is an 80C unit. That is certainly what I would want to run in a Pinz where the engine works hard all the time. I wouldn't want the 87C version in there. You really need the extra time and heat capacity margin the cooler tstat gives you to keep temps from running away from you when you pin the throttle climbing a big hill on a hot day.

Here where I live in Montana USA, I run the 80C thermostat year round, including in the winter where temps are routinely -25F or lower. The engine makes enough heat to keep the cabin warm regardless, and fuel economy is not affected by the lower operating temp. There are no downsides from what we can tell, provided of course you have a good multigrade synthetic oil in the crankcase. As ngoma said, the tstat will regulate temp of the coolant regardless of what the fan is doing.

The big challenge with these engines is keeping them cool enough when they are working hard. I wouldn't worry about it being a little "too cool". ;)

I owned a truck where the temp gauge happened to be calibrated with the normal operating temp region occurring where the needle was more than halfway up, like 3/4. At first it was extremely unsettling to look at the dash while going down the road and always seeing the temp gauge needle sitting above the halfway mark. It put my nerves on edge. My first instinct whenever I saw that gauge reading would always be to immediately start downshifting and looking for a way to dive for the side of the road!! BUT that was the correct place for it, on that gauge -- confirmed with a scan tool. What I'm saying is, we're programmed mentally to want to look down and see that needle locked in on rock solid dead straight middle. But 1/3 up the gauge sounds like very likely where yours should stay, given that you have a confirmed functioning VDO gauge, new high performance cooling system, and new tstat. :)

[Profpinz]

Thanks for the advice V8volvo.....I see your point and agree that it might be operating at a suitable temperature.
I've just finished the rebuild on this vehicle after working on it for 10 years, and whilst I have owned Pinzgauers for over 35 years, my expertise is with the air-cooled petrol engine found in the earlier models.....this is my first diesel Pinzgauer, indeed the first diesel full stop, that I have ever owned.
I'II keep an eye on the engine temperature but given your comments I'm less worried now than I was before.