Died While Driving

[DieselScout]

Hey everyone,

My 1982 245 D24 recently cut power to the engine while driving (shifting into 3rd gear around 15/20mph) and now it won't start. No leaking fluids and battery is good. Earlier in the day, a radiator coolant hose burst on the highway. I replaced the hose and refilled the coolant; seemed to be fine. Any thoughts as to what may have happened?

Thanks,

-Alex

[Goteborg Vapenfabrik]

Can you verify 12v to the fuel solenoid on the injection pump while cranking? It is possible that a burst radiator hose could cause a severe loss of compression due to overheating. Hopefully its something simple.

[DieselScout]

Yes, the fuel solenoid is receiving 12 with the key turned and while cranking.

[ngoma]

Timing belt history?

Can you loosen an injector line union and verify fuel pressure getting to the injector while cranking?

[DieselScout]

I had the timing belt done by my mechanic around 1-2 years ago. (He's done them in the past)

How would I verify the fuel pressure? Wouldn't loosening the injector line while cranking spew diesel everywhere?

[Intercooler-BurnzZ]

Yes it would.
But in case the pressure is on one injector not high enough it would run at all, not smooth but it would work.
Have you checked if there are air bulbs in the transparent diesel fuel line going to the fuel injection pump? It also could be possible that the pump is "jammed", but in this case the car wouldn't die from one day to the other.

Best regards,
Bernd

EDITH:
The fuel pump belt is tighten? If not it maybe skipped and now the pump setting is all gone...could be a reason why it's not starting anymore...

[ngoma]

Injection line pressure is very high but very low volume. Put some towels underneath to keep any fuel from spilling on coolant hoses. You can loosen an injector line nut at the injector, slide the nut away, slightly move the end of the injector line away and watch for small spurts of fuel while cranking (have a helper twist the key while holding WOT).

The results here will give us further clues.

[DieselScout]

After disconnecting the injector line, there does not appear to be any fuel being delivered to the engine while cranking.

Does this indicate something with the injection pump?

Thanks.

-Alex

[Intercooler-BurnzZ]

You should be able to see the yella diesel in the transparent hose which indicates fuel coming to the pump.
Have you checked the fuel pipes / hoses for leakage?
Also possible: the fuel tank could be jammed with slick. Had the same with my previous 940er diesel after I filled a few times old, non-adequate filtered deep-frying oil and the car started to make problems months later (no power, bad running, no starting up etc.)... Also if you don't used this sht in your car I would check it out.

Regs,
Bernd

[ngoma]

After disconnecting the injector line, there does not appear to be any fuel being delivered to the engine while cranking.

Does this indicate something with the injection pump?

Thanks.

-Alex
Could indicate IP internal problem but we don't know enough yet to condemn the IP.

As Bernd mentioned, watch the clear fuel hose between the fuel filter and IP while cranking at WOT. Do you see 100% liquid fuel, 100% air, or air bubbles in fuel? NEEDS TO BE 100% liquid fuel.

Describe better "cut power to the engine while driving." Does that mean Lost power slowly and eventually sputtered out, or died suddenly? And absolutely no-start after that?

[DieselScout]

The hose connecting my Fuel Filter to the IP is not clear on this car (it is on my other D24, though)

The car died suddenly and hasn't started since.

[v8volvo]

I don't see yet where you confirmed the status of the timing belts. Before doing anything else, you need to confirm BOTH of the following in this order:

1) REAR BELT IS INTACT (present, no stripped teeth, not excessively loose)
2) REAR BELT TURNS WHEN THE ENGINE IS BEING CRANKED

The first question checks that the camshaft is able to turn the injection pump. The second is an indirect check of the front timing belt and the crank and cam sprockets by seeing if the crankshaft can turn the camshaft. [We will all cross our fingers that you answer "yes" on that one.]

These are both simple visual checks that require no tools or disassembly. The rear belt is visible in plain sight even when its cover is installed (assuming the belt is still there of course). Let us know if photos would help.

Don't go further with any other tests of the fuel delivery system until you have checked this out and can definitively answer YES to both of the questions above.

[ngoma]

Very good v8volvo, that does make sense. Worthy of the beginnings of a sticky in the "Help! My car died!" forum. I will make a starting attempt on that soon (no pun intended :rolleyes:).

[Intercooler-BurnzZ]

The fuel pump belt is tighten? If not it maybe skipped and now the pump setting is all gone...could be a reason why it's not starting anymore...

This is just what I mentioned.
If the belt just skipped (a few) teeth there should come out diesel from the injector line anyway, just in wrong timing.
But when the rear belt is not getting the pump turning at all, there would be no wonder why no fuel comes out at all.
But this you should notice at once while cranking and one person is watching the engine.
In theory, I can't imagine the rear gear from the camshaft has loosen itself and is not able to get the pump running.
But it has no notch, so it would be able to turn in any way when the screw is not fixed properly to the camshaft.

Regards,
Bernd

[DieselScout]

The gear behind the engine moves BUT the rear timing belt and IP gear do not move.

[ngoma]

That is a good sign :), indicating that the more catastrophic possibilities (engine internal rotating parts damage) have not occurred in your case.

My quick thoughts for failure possibilities to explain your current situation of the rear camshaft sprocket not turning the IP belt, in order of best case scenario to worst:

1. Loose IP belt. Not very likely given that everything has been working for some time. No way really for the belt to loosen. If the IP mounting came loose, it would drop under its own weight which would tighten the belt.

2. Old/worn IP belt deterioriated to the point of losing enough teeth to not engage with the rear camshaft sprocket cogs.

3. Seized IP

Can you test the IP belt tension? An easy method: In the middle, between the two sprockets, twist the belt between thumb and finger. Belt should be able to easily twist at least 45deg to almost 90 deg without a lot of force. Any tighter that that is too tight, any looser is too loose.

Do you know how old the IP belt is? Does it look somewhat new and fresh, with sharp edges and squared-off teeth or is it weathered, with smoothed and rounded edges, and cracking like old tires?

[DieselScout]

The belt is about 1.5-2 years old with about 1000 miles or less.

The belt tension seems to move describes it should....
BUT
I had a helper apply pressure/tension to the rear belt with end of a crowbar while I cranked and the IP sprocket began to turn until "voila" the engine came to life.....until my helper released tension to the belt and the engine died again.

So it's a loose belt?

[ngoma]

Then logically the belt should have several stripped teeth where it wraps around the rear camshaft sprocket. Can you verify that?

[DieselScout]

I was able to move the belt; There's about 10"-12" of teeth missing.

So a new belt and I should be back on the road?
Anything else I should have checked?
Could this have done any other damage?

Is it likely that this was caused by higher engine temperatures after my coolant hose blew or was this belt improperly installed by the previous mechanic?

[ngoma]

The next step is to see if you can turn the IP sprocket. Since the belt is already stripped we won't worry about damaging that.

The IP shaft is surprisingly difficult to turn by hand but can be done. You might be able to get a wrench on the pulley nut (tighter clearance in a 240) and see if you can turn the shaft. If it feels really locked don't force it, but you should be able to feel it can be rocked back and forth a few degrees in the slack section before it starts to come up against the internal spring pressure building up in the internal cam ramps. It will take increasingly stronger force to continue thru the spring force at the height of the ramp, then after its peak it will snap ahead on its own (spring pressure) to the next slack zone.

With wrench on the nut your leverage is sufficient to be able to rotate the shaft. I would go clockwise on the nut (as if tightening), otherwise you risk loosening the nut. Unless the IP internals are already damaged, there is no problem rotating the IP shaft in the reverse direction.

See if you can rotate the shaft, there should be 6 spring-loadings and 6 "valleys" per revolution.

If it is locked up that is another story.

So a new belt and I should be back on the road?
Need to see if the IP rotates first, make sure it hasn't seized.

Anything else I should have checked?
No we are progressing in an orderly fashion.

Is it likely that this was caused by higher engine temperatures after my coolant hose blew or was this belt improperly installed by the previous mechanic?
It is possible but not easy to verify direct cause yet.

[DieselScout]

I was able to move the IP sprocket by taping on it lightly with a hammer and die. The IP sprocket did move when I applied tension to the belt.

[ngoma]

Good. We should still try to see if the IP internals can rotate thru at least a few cycles. Can you walk the belt off? And then try rotate the IP shaft via a wrench on the sprocket pulley nut? I wouldn't use a hammer and punch to try to move it further, seems like too much of a shock.