D24T bad sounds

[RedArrow]

Today I drove my good running d24t car to the beach, 55miles without issues. 3hrs later when i started it up, i noticed something was wrong. I heard sounds.

Please help me figure it out. What is it???
I uploaded 4 videos too.

FACTS:
Car ran amazing and there were no signs of any trouble developing. No recent issues and no recent fixes.no recent changes. no recent repairs.

There is no engine oil loss.
There was and there is no overheating. (I know bc I had to gently drive 30mins to a friend's house to drop the car..97F outside today...)
No coolant loss
No oil in water, no water visible in oil.

Car smokes at idle now (didnt smoke before... unless floored) and now the smoke is there... not blue not black...it is a little hazy ,light grey-ish,
Not exactly white. It doesnt smell sweet (coolant) either. Smells unpleasant though.

The sound is similar to knocking. It is hard to describe it.
It isnt there when car is at idle. At around 900-1000rpm it can be heard AND IT GRADUALLY INCREASES *WITH THE RPMS*.

There is no hard starting.
There is no visible leaks of oil or fuel.
The turbo was spooling fine in the morning when i drove the 55miles.

Idk about it now bc i didnt want to torture the car with revs...drove gently to friends house and dropped it on their driveway in LI.

I cant see anything mechanical making the noise.(no fan blade hitting anything etc.
I think it is internal....dont forget that it smokes now!

How can timing go that retard (or advanced??) without any signs?

More facts:
Belts look ok but that is obvious bc i made it 30minutes away on the highway at 35-40mph in 5th gear with very low rpms.

Extra facts: my turbo spooled too early and too high for a few months bc of air leak in injector #5 always got in the fuel system (inj pump).
A couple of days ago i sealed the inj return line (loose nipple) at injector #5 and right after that my turbo action went back to normal (and car felt so much better)

Can it be my turbo bullshitting me now?
Idk.
Im thinking of the valces too.
And that my timing got way off for some reason.

(BUT...SIDENOTE: NEVER ADJUSTED PUMP FOR 7YRS AND CAR RAN ALWAYS PERFECTLY)
WHY would the timing go that bad so suddenly?

Can it be the hg going?
No idea yet. Im missing the point bc of stress and 96F in nyc.

All ideas are very appreciated.

I feel sounds are coming from under the valve cover but not so sure yet. Oil looks okay and water looks okay. Im planning to return today to check pump timing.

Bad injector??????? Timing?? Hg? What is it going on?
Actually idk if all cyls are running. Maybe that #5 clogged or needs a good bleeding? I have no idea..i just left the car there for now...decided to wait for forum responses first. Someone suggested checking on the vac pump pin too.
The sound is bad..it "rocks" like car was fully cold and way too advanced. But i havent touched the ip in long years and car ran fine!!! Im not sure at this point that it runs on all cylinders.

How does this sound to you??

Here's videos.
Thank you for all advice and help.
������

[RedArrow]

https://youtu.be/TZI0DM0UWk0

https://youtu.be/MiJh4RKZ6R0

https://youtu.be/mSHIRf9iBiE

https://youtu.be/R8TYpV1qvAI

[monkeh]

Cant look at youtube links right now.
But, I'd say it could be a crapped out injector, or pump timing may have slipped.
Injector knock is loud, it sounds terminal, Didn't you use some form of epoxy after fixing a leak off pipe? Maybe that has gone into the injector bore.

[RedArrow]

I'd say it could be a crapped out injector, or pump timing may have slipped.
Injector knock is loud, it sounds terminal, Didn't you use some form of epoxy after fixing a leak off pipe? Maybe that has gone into the injector bore.

I fixed inj #5 with jb weld and that injector seems to work o.k. now, unless injector #5's return line had sent poop towards injector #6 where it lodged BUT I DOUBT THAT.

I'm hoping it will be something that's relatively easy to fix and nothing major!
Yesterday night I grabbed some basic tools (to work on injectors and check/adjust injection pump) and went back to the car. I got there around midnight...but decided to make some noise! (And stinky smoke!!)

It started up beautifully and there were no knocking/slapping sounds at idle, no air visible in the fuel lines. Though it smoked hazy and smelly, it kept running well. As I raised RPM to about 900 and up, the very disturbing knocking returned.

I first checked on injector #5 (the one I had to JB-weld recently due to a loose injector nipple) but it seemed like #5 was not the problematic cylinder/injector.
Then I loosened the hard fuel lines on the injectors, one by one, one at a time, from the front of the engine to the rear (#1 to #6) to see if the knocking disappeared.

Doing so at cyl #6, the noise smoothens then disappears.
There is a video showing that.
Bad injector?!? Obstruction?
Now I wonder why it failed (if). Idk How it failed. Was it dirt that somehow made its way in... or is it something wrong within the injector itself?!?

They are relatively brand new gtd injectors that i bought new (few months ago) and they have less than 2000miles in them now. Car ran good on them, immediately after installation the Volvo ran smoother and more powerful than before. And much quieter too.

I'll go back again today, to get #6 injector out and put in one of the stock (used) injectors I kept (same car used them for more than 5yrs without issues but they were getting just a little worn and "smokey" )
Or is it a bad idea to use a single one of the 155bar factory setup stock injector (with 5 other injectors that are gtd currently)??

I am planning to get the car home on its on feet today, drive it home on 5 good gtd+1bad gtd injectors... or 5 good gtd+1 used good stock injector....or 6 used stock injectors.....

I perhaps will get there pretty late (dark) so i dont feel like doing the full-set injector job out there. Also maybe it isnt a good idea to disassemble the problematic injector without making sure it stays as clean as possible.
I didn't plan reusing my old injectors although car ran absolutely reliable at the time when they were installed.

If I decide to keep the 5 working gtd injectors in, I dont know whether or not i will be able to locate and buy another single gtd 170bar new injector to match the "set of the 5leftover gtds". (Anders maybe you could check if I can buy another one? Thx)

My other question is...related to vacuum pump.
If i would find it being a problem (in the future),
-can i use a d24 V.Pump on my d24t engine? Are all years identical?
-in case I can use the nonturbo v.pump on my d24t, shall i use it with the d24t plunger or shall i stick with the nonturbo vac.pump And its own plunger?

https://youtu.be/FsevZfFk5nw

Extra question: can a very tight intake valve make that sound? Can it do it out of the blue? I dont think so.
But i had the valve adjustment done last year and I was absolutely amazed that only 1 clearance was out of spec (after 5yrs of driving). It was the intake on cylinder #6. I left it alone bc it was 0.18 but today i finally ordered the proper 3.35 shim that will correct the clearance to 0.23.

[monkeh]

Managed to view the vids, With my few years of high pressure common rail diesels, mainly Iveco and Chrysler/Mercedes, that sounds like an injector that may have something stuck in it. The stinky smell of partially burnt diesel is quite distinct. Starting on no heaterplugs will produce the same smell.

Have you stethoscope'd injector #6? Just to make sure it is that. Just a screwdriver resting on its body will tell you if it is that. A sound of a tight valve may produce a different sound. You have 5 other injectors to compare sounds to.
It could be a carryover from #5, and hopefully it can be dismantled and backflushed. Substituting may work. Its better than running it like that.
As for the pump situation? I haven't got a clue, but putting a non turbo pump on a turbo will probably just flatten the car unless you plan on driving it wherever very gingerly.

[ngoma]

Have you stethoscope'd injector #6? Just to make sure it is that. Just a screwdriver resting on its body will tell you if it is that. A sound of a tight valve may produce a different sound. You have 5 other injectors to compare sounds to.
Very good suggestion, will help you pinpoint better where the sound is coming from. You can also compare the sounds on the exhaust side, from each exh. manifold exit.

[RedArrow]

that sounds like an injector that may have something stuck in it. The stinky smell of partially burnt diesel is quite distinct.

YES I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITHIN INJECTOR #6. YESTERDAY NIGHT I TOOK IT OUT, INSTALLED A KNOWN GOOD CONDITION USED INJECTOR (with a new seal, then torqued to specs, of course). The bad smell disappeared because the mysterious "foggy" smoke disappeared.

Just a screwdriver resting on its body will tell you if it is that. A sound of a tight valve may produce a different sound.

YES, I TOOK THE TIMING TOOLS PLUS THE STETHOSCOPE WITH ME BUT BY THE TIME I ARRIVED TO WHERE THE CAR WAS PARKED, I WAS EXCITED TO Cold-START IT UP AND HEAR THE INJECTORS, THAT I ENDED UP FORGETTING THE EXTRA TOOLS IN THE SADDLEBAG OF MY MCYCLE. I could have originally used it to determine which injector went bad, though I already had some idea, because manually letting air into #6 did stop the knocking (while letting air into any other inj of the five, did not stop the knocking/ticking/slapping/hammering sound).

It could be a carryover from #5, and hopefully it can be dismantled and backflushed. Substituting may work. Its better than running it like that.

I THOUGHT I WOULD SWAP THE USED INJECTOR IN AND LEAVE THE 5 OTHER GTD INJECTORS IN PLACE (to finish the repair faster AND to exclude other issue that may pop up while dealing with all of the injectors, their sealing washers, possible carbon build-up, torque specs, all of hard pipes, etc etc and all of those in dark and late at night). So now i temporarily have the 5 new gtd+1 used injector (with a stock-setup nozzle) combo. I will inspect and take apart the failed injector to diagnose the clog or any mechanical problem (if any).
So far, all I see is that the nozzle is not well centered, misaligned within the injector housing itself. BTW, the sealing washer looked evenly "crushed" by the factory torque. So at this point idk what may have happened to the nozzle itself. I may later find a piece of JBweld (sent from inj #5) or a broken spring (in inj #6) etc.


As for the pump situation? I haven't got a clue, but putting a non turbo pump on a turbo will probably just flatten the car unless you plan on driving it wherever very gingerly.

HERE I MEANT THE VACUUM PUMP AND I WANTED TO KNOW SWAP IDEAS (THE TYPICAL D24/D24T FITMENT OPTIONS).

Thanks for reading and all comments. Keep dieseling!
Special thanks to PO making this roadside project easier, by leaning the injection pump away from injectors #5-6. It does make a huge difference. ����

After installing the used injector , knocking went away. I'll update the thread after driving the car home. but now I have to make a decision...buy a 170bar gtd injector or get a new set of injectors fully rebuilt and with stock nozzles. Grrrr $$ or have one of my four sets rebuilt.

I'll attach a few pictures...but... I know that the www.d24t.com system reduces their quality.

[RedArrow]

Testdrive went fine, the engine started perfectly, I drove 65miles without issues, no noises but there is some smoke when accelerating... probably caused by the used injector (#6). I drove it hard, it ran very good and I heard no knocking at all.

[RedArrow]

Here's some pictures of the bad injector.

[ngoma]

So far, all I see is that the nozzle is not well centered, misaligned within the injector housing itself.
Nozzle centered in the inj. housing is fairly important. Bosch even has a centering tool (basically a thinwall metal tube that slides into the gap between the nozzle and the housing) for use when refurbishing. It's not that hard to eyeball it. You should open up the injector and reset the nozzle to center it, then retorque it closed, and pop test it/check spray behavior/re-shim as necessary.

So at this point idk what may have happened to the nozzle itself.
Did you notice it when you installed it? Were these new injectors or did you install new nozzles into the old injectors?

I may later find a piece of JBweld (sent from inj #5) or a broken spring (in inj #6) etc.
Hard for me to imagine foreign matter migrating from the injector spill side to the inlet side. Pretty much a one-way pressurized flow, no?

After installing the used injector , knocking went away. I'll update the thread after driving the car home. but now I have to make a decision...buy a 170bar gtd injector or get a new set of injectors fully rebuilt and with stock nozzles. Grrrr $$ or have one of my four sets rebuilt.
Try recentering/pop testing the your #6 first.

[RedArrow]

Nozzle centered in the inj. housing is fairly important. Bosch even has a centering tool (basically a thinwall metal tube that slides into the gap between the nozzle and the housing) for use when refurbishing. It's not that hard to eyeball it. You should open up the injector and reset the nozzle to center it, then retorque it closed, and pop test it/check spray behavior/re-shim as necessary.


Did you notice it when you installed it? Were these new injectors or did you install new nozzles into the old injectors?


Hard for me to imagine foreign matter migrating from the injector spill side to the inlet side. Pretty much a one-way pressurized flow, no?


Try recentering/pop testing the your #6 first.

All six injectors were new injectors, with new "gtd" nozzles fitted, set to 170bar, I purchased them from Anders. They looked& worked great for several months.
At the time of installation, I did not notice nozzle/nozzles being off centered.

I'll take the bad injector apart to see if I can spot visible damage or dirt, but I doubt it failed due to foreign material. I would say that the nozzle got misaligned by the turning force when the injector itself had been torqued into the head, maybe the crush washer/injector shield did not sit flush enough or idk. But it ran so well for long, only then it failed.

Whatever it is, im glad that those bad sounds were not caused by an internal major issue.

Unfortunately a diesel inj tester isnt part of my tool hoard yet.

[RedArrow]

Same thing happened again, today,

On the way back home from a circa 100mile road trip. Regular driving, no issues no hard driving nothing extraordinary...then:
Suddenly I heard knocks and saw excessive smoke, luckily I was on my exit near home, only a mile away and made it home gently.

Soon after I got proper d24 tools together and loosened injector tops one by one and turns out this time it was cyl #4 injector acting very stupid.
I wanted the bad one out and have thecar running well again. This meant adding one of the "old" injectors in.

Hard lines got loosened, securing brackets got removed, 2hard lines turned away and #4 return lines removed then injector taken out.
New bosch seal/washer, old worn injectors out of trunk reopened (sealed in 987 layers of serurity foil, capped etc), i picked one injector, added copper antisieze and torqued it to 52 and reinstalled everything including new return lines. Bled the injectors all gently tightened all nuts and installed the important securing clamps in the hard fuel lines. Sprayed it all down so i could see leaks and errors. No issues.
***Watch water hoses when you use chemicals!

Hard knocking is gone, no injector sounds, smoke stopped.
Starts and runs fine, no leaks, no air in system. And runs good.

Facts:

2 of the 6 new injectors are "out" and went bad. In such a small time. Maybe only a few thousand miles apart . ... I'm left thinking what is going on?
And why.
Inspecting both of them i can see that the tip of the injector nozzles are off- centered. The gap at the perimeter is large on one side and nonexistent at the other side right across ...diagonally across ....on the same nozzle.

I just want a reliable set of injectors now, probably the stock ones but "new" , well set to fact spec 155.

Unless someone can explain this and suggest another plan.
Thanks. Picts i took are too big in size for this forum.

I will try reassembling those two failed injectors one day. Maybe

[ngoma]

Are you looking for additional information different than what we have discussed above? Nozzle needs to be centered in the injector body, can be done even without the Bosch tool. Crack the injector open just enough to be able to move the nozzle around until it's centered, then torque it back together.

Where were these injectors from?

[ngoma]

OK I see you got them from forum member Anders. Why don't you contact him and explain the situation to him?

[v8volvo]

Have you taken the two failed injectors apart to see if you can find a reason for the problems? Does the needle move freely in the nozzle? Any broken springs?

What kind of fuel do you normally use? And do you put in any kind of lubricity additive (biodiesel, Stanadyne, PowerService, etc)?

I have seen injectors fail with these symptoms when the needle hangs either due to lubrication failure and resultant scuffing, or contamination from a failing injection pump or elsewhere that jams the needle open. In that case you may be able to clean it and get it working well again, but you will want to know what was the source of the contamination.

[anders]

I would like to know how these injectors did fail. Are you running a 12mm pump? I have came to the conclusion that pop set at 170 bar and the 12mm pump is a bad combo. The injectors tend to break springs, this will cause pre-injection and the knock. I have also seen the stock Bosch injectors set at 155 break the spring too.

If you want to send the injectors to me I will drop the pop pressure back down to 155 bar, and I will look into what happened on the two that failed.it will be free of charge just pay to ship them to me.