Car does not want to start :(

[Texidor1]

Got everything installed.
IP timing set to .85
New glow plugs.
Cranks OK.
Dash indicators OK with glow plugs.
I believe the problem is electrical.
There are 2 blue wires coming out of the wiring harness that I got no place to plug them in.
Looks like they plug somewhere close to the IP.
I got a blue and a yellow wires plugged to the IP.
Help me with this wiring issue.

[anders]

Is it possible you got your timing 180 off? It's very easy to do.
Are you getting 12 volts to the fuel shutoff solenoid?
All the air is bled out of the fuel system?

[Texidor1]

Which one is the solenoid?
The top or bottom plug in the IP?
And how do I ck the 180 off timing?
Thanks. I am learning this bad boy d24t. :)

[Texidor1]

I got 12v going to the blue wire. This wire is plugged to the lower plug in the IP. The yellow wire is plugged top.
The 2 blue wires missing to plug send 12v. I do not have a place to plug them. :(

[ngoma]

The blue wire that has +12VDC when the ignition switch is ON should be connected to the IP fuel shutoff solenoid, see here (http://d24t.com/showpost.php?p=10455&postcount=5) for visuals. If that solenoid is not receiving +12VDC, it is not allowing fuel to the injectors.

[Texidor1]

Thanks Ngoma.
I had the wires plugged backwards.
Will try.
Any info on the two missing blue wires?
They are sending 12v with the switch on.

[ngoma]

How many light blue wires have you got terminating in that area? Should be two, one for the fuel shutoff solenoid, and the other for the altitude compensator on the IP.

Both should have +12VDC with ignition on, but the one for the altitude compensator should turn off at around 4000 ft. altitude (IIRC?). Easy way to test for that one is to temporarily disconnect the other end from the tuna can on the driver side shock tower. Other end (that plugs into the altitude compensator) should lose its +12VDC.

[v8volvo]

You might also have a couple of wires for the EGR throttle switch if your car has EGR. Seem to recall those being black but they also might be blue.

All that matters for it to start, though, is that there should be +12V at the two solenoids on the pump, functional glow plugs and circuit, and correct timing. I wouldn't worry about the extra wires for now as long as the ones that are plugged in are doing what they should.

What is telling you that the problem is electrical? Sounds like it might be, but might also be mechanical or fuel-prime related. Were you able to get the fuel lines all bled and primed all the way to the injectors? If not, that's the starting point.

You can accidentally set timing 180* out by timing only to the crank without checking the cam. Ways of verifying this are either taking the valve cover off, or taking the vacuum pump off (easier but you need to use a little more caution), to check what the cam position is when the crank is at the #1 TDC you've been using.

Does it smoke or cough when trying to start, or is there nothing at all?

[Texidor1]

Thank you Guys for the feedback. You are the experts. :)

Remember that I bought this car with missing parts. :[

1. Car is not coughing or sending smoke out of the exhaust.

2. There are two blue wires left. Possibly for the egr that its not present.

3. I just bled the whole system; still no start.

4. The two wires to the IP:
One is yellow and the other blue.
The way they are setup (yellow) is not giving 12v to the upper plug (fuel solenoid); but is giving (blue) 12v to the bottom plug (altitude).
If I switch them (yellow and blue), the car does not crank at all. :[
If I set a 12v jumper to the fuel solenoid, the car will not start. :{

5. Car was timed properly. Removed the valve cover to set cam lobes in piston one to horizontal, and the little 0 set on the flywheel.

6. Pump was set to .085 degrees.

[ngoma]

3. I just bled the whole system; still no start.
What do you mean by "bled the whole system." Did it include bleeding the injector hard lines?

4. The two wires to the IP:
One is yellow and the other blue.
The way they are setup (yellow) is not giving 12v to the upper plug (fuel solenoid); but is giving (blue) 12v to the bottom plug (altitude).
If I switch them (yellow and blue), the car does not crank at all. :[
So those wires are probably not the correct ones. Find the ones that behave as explained in post #7 above. (http://d24t.com/showpost.php?p=10516&postcount=7)

You stated new GPs but are they all getting +12VDC during the glow period?

Have you studied the Hard Starting sticky (http://d24t.com/showthread.php?t=1225)?

[Texidor1]

Yes. The whole system. Includes the injectors hard lines. Used a syphom pump to get it done.

GP's are getting their 12v. System is working fine.

The two blue wires (they send 12v with the switch on). If I used them instead the other two (yellow/blue) a short circuit cut the whole system. I turn the key to on and no lights/cranking happens.

The shutoff solenoid was not clicking. I put it apart, cleaned up. Now is clicking. :)

Will continue tomorrow.

Thanks for all the feedback.

I am going to start this bad boy. Its mad at me....... :)

[ngoma]

Looks like you have a wiring problem. You will have to work around it in order to get the car started ASAP, so just hotwire the fuel shutoff solenoid for now w/ +12VDC. You really don't need anything more than that. Fuel, good cranking speed, glowplugs, compression-- that's it!

Hold the throttle wide open when attempting to start, and verify you have fuel dripping from loosened injector line nuts at the injectors during cranking. If not, the car will not start. (You must retighten the injector lines to the injectors after verifying fuel is being sent to the injectors. 18 ft-lbs. means do not overtighten.)

PS: Can you describe how you bled the injector hardlines with the siphon pump? Curious to maybe find out a new method.

[Texidor1]

Timed the car again.
TDC . Pump to .087
Car is coughing.
Found out problems with the within harness connections closer to the go relay.
Will fix problems.
Sometimes car does nor crank at all and the 12 volts to up solenoids cut off.
More to follow.

[Texidor1]

Resending due to typos.

Timed the car again.
TDC and camshaft re-check.
IP to .087
Car is coughing. Almost started. Then quit overall. No cranking.
Found out problems with the wiring harness connections closer to the glow plug relay.
Will fix problems.
Sometimes car does not crank at all, and the 12 volts to injection pump solenoids cuts off.

More to follow.

[Texidor1]

Working on the wiring harness.:confused:
Some cables got loose and do not know the arrangement. Please help.

The first one is the relay located next to the glow plugs relay. It is a 4-prongs plug. The female plug is broke and have cables loose. Colors are yellow, blue, green, black. See pic of the relay.

The other plug is in the same area. This one is flat 3-prongs. Two wires are beige and the other one is yellow. One of the wires connect to the relay above. Need to know which one is, and where the other two connect.

Would apreciate that any of you send me pics of both plugs to determine the arrangement.:)

Car is alnost ready to start. :)

[Texidor1]

Guys,
Please help me with my request in my previous entry above.
Thanks.

[anders]

I'm not sure what that beige relay is for, I would assume it has something to do with the EGR.
I can try to post some pictures of the main harness and glow plug harness ends if that helps. It won't be until later tonight after I'm done digging out a 760 harness.
If the engine is in time, in good health, injection system in good health and the fuel system fully purged you can just easily apply 12 volts to the fuel shutoff solenoid, apply 12 volts to the glow plugs for ~10 seconds and crank the starter. It should fire right up.
These engines need very little to run.
I run just about every engine before I install one, it takes very little.

[Goteborg Vapenfabrik]

I looked it up in the greenbooks yesterday. Its called a delay
relay. Like Anders said it's for the EGR system. I'm eliminating it from my 740TD. You may try checking the glow plugs individually with jumper cables and a hot battery. I didn't bother with #6. Its a beast.

[Texidor1]

Car will not crank unless those wires are setup properly. :(

[Texidor1]

Glow plugs are getting 12v
Both solenoids at the IP are getting 12v
How do I get rid of the Delay relay next to the go relay?
How to do the wiring to get rid of it?

[Goteborg Vapenfabrik]

Ignore the delay relay for now. If you have verified that the first five glow plugs are working by removing them individually and straight wiring them to a hot battery, then your injectors may be suspect. If not injectors then a compression test is in order.

[Texidor1]

Car is not cranking at all.
Electrical problem.

[anders]

How about applying power to the spade terminal on the starter? There is also a wire the hangs out of the wiring harness on the car side on the firewall, it's a female spade terminal. It's the signal wire to the starter, if you apply 12 volts to that single spade terminal the engine should crank, if the harness plug is plugged in.

[Texidor1]

Will ck the spade terminal tomorrow.
Please send me the pics.

[anders]

Glow plug relay picture

[anders]

Main engine harness picture

[Texidor1]

Car is cranking, coughing, and smoke comes out of back.
No luck on engine to start. A couple of times was even making the pretty noise of running.
12 Volts are getting to glow plugs and both solenoids in the IP.
Glow plugs are getting warm to the touch. Indicates they are working.
Will continue tomorrow.

Thank you for help.:)

[Texidor1]

Hi,
Engine finally starts.
Runs for a few seconds then dies.
Also, nothing happen when I press the gas pedal.
What is wrong?
Please help.

[Goteborg Vapenfabrik]

Fuel restriction. How old is the fuel filter? Water in fuel? In tank strainer clogged? Clear fuel lines would tell much like if the IP is drawing fuel out pf the tank.

[Texidor1]

New fuel filter and tank strainer.
Will bleed lines one more time.
Thank.

[Goteborg Vapenfabrik]

The fuel shutoff solenoid?

[Texidor1]

It is getting 12v with the switch on.
Tank has clean & fresh diesel.

[Goteborg Vapenfabrik]

The fuel shutoff solenoid could have failed. Not allowing fuel into the IP even with 12v supplied.

[Texidor1]

Thanks.
Will check tomorrow.
More to follow.

[ngoma]

Hi,
Engine finally starts.
Runs for a few seconds then dies.
Also, nothing happen when I press the gas pedal.
What is wrong?
Please help.
Good, you are making progress!

Does it start quickly each time? Always start quickly, then dies?

[Texidor1]

No. It takes some effort to start each time.
Will ck the shutoff solenoid today.
Thanks.

[Texidor1]

No progress today. Same. Engine starts the dies.

Press the accelerator pedal and does not work. Stays idling.

How do I test the Shutoff Solenoid?

[Goteborg Vapenfabrik]

Make a jumper wire to apply 12v directly from the battery to the fuel shutoff solenoid. The solenoid should click when battery voltage is applied. But it sounds as if you may have more serious issues. Hoping for an easy fix.

[anders]

Did you get the throttle arm positioned correctly on the shaft?
I would be prepared for a runaway. I have had several pumps start up and just idle (very poorly) and then all the sudden it goes to full throttle. 3 out of the 4 pumps that did this had sat for a year or more with bio diesel in them. It's an easy fix, pull the top cover off of the pump and clean/work the governor.
I do this to all questionable pumps now before I run them.

[Texidor1]

Thanks Anders.
Will check that.