View Full Version : 11mm pump head
Jason
11-05-2009, 07:31 PM
Anyone know a part number or application that the 11mm head that will fit our injection pumps comes from?
Jason
I'm wondering if the first generation Cummins 6BT is a source for an 11MM pump head? The 6BT had a Bosch VE up till ~1993 when an inline "P7100" replaced the VE.
If we can find a 6BT VE pump identification number it'll tell what size head it has. I know the 4-cylinder version (4BT) has a > 10MM pump head - when equipped with the VE pump - some of the VW guys are using the 4BT pump on a TDi engine to make a "mTDi".
"Bosch produced VE pump in two shaft sizes...17mm and larger 20mm mainshaft pumps. The shaft sizes differ mainly in relation to the size of the pump head, 17mm shaft for up to 9mm head and 20mm shaft for 10mm head and over."
[...]
"The Bosch part number on the Bosch VEs pumps are fairly standard i.e. 0-460-4XX-XXX VE , what are important to note are the 6th and 7th digits of the Bosch Number. The 6th digit indicates the plunger size, 9 for 9mm, 0-10mm, 1-11mm, 2 for12mm. The 7th digit the is the application, 4 for 4cyl., 6 for 6cyl., etc. The specific manufacturers part number may also be on the pump and completly different, for example, the Cummins 4BT injection pump numbers do not indicate plunger size, everyone I have seen to date has been 12mm. Since the 4BT is a 4 Cylinder engine we can assume that part."
Perhaps a 6BT - like the 4BT - has a 12MM pump head? Edit: I know you're asking for a 11MM head, but hey, why not shoot for the moon. :) Also, maybe some Cummins had 11MM pump heads?
Source: http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=6427.0
Jason
11-06-2009, 11:06 AM
im very familiar with the 1st gen Cummins engine i have had a few of them. they are a 12 mm head. im not sure if you could cut the fuel down enough for the engine vo idle! the 12 mm head pushes enough fuel to feed a 5.9... from what i hear the 11mm head is the one of choice over in europe where they are actually building these up for some real power. i have also been in contact with giles about a hot rod pump and will get his input on the 12mm head.
IceV_760
11-06-2009, 11:44 AM
Actually we use 12mm head. Some guys might use 11mm,
but top guys seems to use 12mm always. So it is possible to get working.
cuaz64
11-06-2009, 02:47 PM
11mmm thingie was used in the Penta version of the D24T.
Jason
11-06-2009, 04:44 PM
Ahhh, the 12mm head is used. They are easy to come by around here. Lots of cheap cummins VE parts as most guys think they are useless and go to a P-pump. (we know better)
Jason
Jason
11-06-2009, 04:44 PM
What was the Penta version of the D24T? Application?
Jason
Jason
11-06-2009, 04:45 PM
Any info over there on the European forums that I cant read about what they do to the pump to make the 12mm work? I know it will bolt in and fit, but I'm talking adjustments, what delivery valves if they are changed?
Jason
IceV_760
11-07-2009, 01:02 AM
You need to keep normal feed really minimum, so at idle-speed
will keep somewhere between 1000-1500rpm. Trick is to mod that
plug on richer-circuit (that thing in top of the td pump, cant remember if it
was called "ICD" or something like that) so radical at when pressure kicks in
the real feeding begins. And the governor plate on that richer mod (the plate which you can roll up and down, and have an effect when the plug starts to pull down due to pressure) needs to be rolled as down as it goes.
Then they speak something about turning the gas-axle.
Thats all i found. Sad i cant help more at this moment.
Jason
11-07-2009, 04:11 AM
Your talking about the AFC housing, or on the vw forums the German abbreviation is LDA for whatever that stands for in German. I have that modified on my car already, to provide as much enrichment as possible under boost. I was just supprised to find out that you could reduce the fuel down enough to get it to idle. I'm going to start looking for a 12mm head or parts pump to steel one out of!
Jason
What was the Penta version of the D24T? Application?
Jason
Is "Penta" an engine for a marine application?
IceV_760
11-07-2009, 10:45 AM
Thats right.
most use the pumphead from TMD41 who comes from an volvo truck but i think it fits from TD40 also
Jason
12-03-2009, 07:22 PM
Has anyone found out any more info on what kind of pump changes need to be made for the 12mm head to be utilized? I'm looking for specific modifications that need to be done, I don't want to go the guess and test route on my car I don't have the time!
Jason
11mmm thingie was used in the Penta version of the D24T.
penta has never used d24 in any boats. so there's no d24 pump with 11mm pumphead, you have to change pumphead!
cuaz64
12-05-2009, 05:12 PM
penta has never used d24 in any boats. so there's no d24 pump with 11mm pumphead, you have to change pumphead!
Supposedly yes.:confused:
Then show me! and even if ther is an d24t penta i can promise that it dosent have 11mm pumphead! i dont think many should rebuild their pump if their is an 11mm pump already.
The only penta engine on 2,4L is TMD31 and that engine only has 4 cyl!
Jason
12-06-2009, 09:03 PM
axl are you running the 11 or 12mm head?
Jason
11mm from tmd41a but im searching an 12mm head
Supposedly yes.:confused:
Im still waiting for you to show me.
Jason
12-07-2009, 07:43 AM
12mm heads are easily found in a 6bt cummins pump off a 89-93 dodge diesel. Don't know how common they are over there, but here in the us those trucks are everywhere... I own two right now!
Did you have to do anything special to the pump to get the 11mm head to run right, or just adjustments?
Jason
12mm heads are easily found in a 6bt cummins pump off a 89-93 dodge diesel. Don't know how common they are over there, but here in the us those trucks are everywhere... I own two right now!
Did you have to do anything special to the pump to get the 11mm head to run right, or just adjustments?
Jason
cummins pumps are very rare and expensive here in sweden but 12mm is found in several volvo trucks. all you need is the pumphead and "camdisk" (dont know if its called that) and some knowledge in how to mount it. its a big advantage to have a testbench to run the pump in before to know how much it delivers and how to set the timing on the pump
Jason
12-07-2009, 09:37 AM
I know what you mean by camdisc. Most just call it the cam plate. Interesting that you use the plate as well. I had thought you would just swap the head, but it guess it would make sesnse to use the same plate.
Over here there are some companies making a "high lift" cam plate for the ve pump. I'm not sure of the stock lift but the high lift one is 4mm. There a are a few guys on the Cummins forums over here running a 14mm head with the 4mm cam plate and pushing A LOT of fuel through the ve pump. Way to much for our little engines but cool none the less!
Jason
I know what you mean by camdisc. Most just call it the cam plate. Interesting that you use the plate as well. I had thought you would just swap the head, but it guess it would make sesnse to use the same plate.
Over here there are some companies making a "high lift" cam plate for the ve pump. I'm not sure of the stock lift but the high lift one is 4mm. There a are a few guys on the Cummins forums over here running a 14mm head with the 4mm cam plate and pushing A LOT of fuel through the ve pump. Way to much for our little engines but cool none the less!
Jason
14mm pump head would blow up a d24:D I know a guy in sweden who runs with 2 stock d24 pumps and that pushes alot of fuel. I only used the cam plate because it had higher lift otherwise its not necessary
Jason
12-07-2009, 02:55 PM
Now that I would like to see.. Any pictures?
Jason
IceV_760
12-08-2009, 05:29 AM
14mm pump head would blow up a d24:D I know a guy in sweden who runs with 2 stock d24 pumps and that pushes alot of fuel. I only used the cam plate because it had higher lift otherwise its not necessary
I want too see that too. Pic or didnt happen.
Who would do something like that? With same, even lesser effort
you will assemble some mean row-pump there,
or change pump head, than start to peel with that kind of.....
what would you like to see? I havent blown up a d24 I just meant that it would not last very long.
Jason
12-08-2009, 06:13 AM
I was interested in seeing a picture of the D24 with two injection pumps!
Jason
I dont have any pictures:( But i can say that he has been working on the drive system and nozzle pipes for weeks to get it right. he uses a chain to the pumps and has welded the nozzlepipes together
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