looking for M47 and associated parts (MI, USA)

[BluevanACD2005]

I have a 1983 Volvo 760GLE with the D24T and an automatic trans I am looking to convert to a 5 speed manual. I do not want the M46. I would need the trans and correct bell housing, as well as the flywheel. The rest would be easier to make or source, but if you have the parts I would be interested in everything.

Thanks,

Spenser

734.621.3155

[v8volvo]

An '83 760 with an automatic? You sure it's not a 1984? If it's really an '83, you've got a rare vehicle there -- don't change it! ;)

As for your parts needs -- there was never an M47 sold with the turbodiesel motor -- you could make it work, but you'll have to build a frankenstein tranny out of parts from a 700 series diesel M46 and a gasser M47. Can be done but it will involve a pretty extensive shopping list in order to get all the little bits you'll need. You won't be able to find anyone who is able to sell you an actual complete 700 series diesel M47, those do exist, but they only came in European NA D24 740s.

There were not even many gas M47 700 series cars sold in the US so I suspect your biggest challenge will be finding the 700-series-specific M47 parts that you will need (e.g. driveshaft, mount/trans crossmember, shift linkage and cage if different from M46, etc). Some of it you may be able to fabricate or improvise from 740 M46 parts and 240 M47 parts but it may involve some trial and error. Note also that the pilot bearing I.D. on a diesel is different than a gas car, diesel transmissions come with a sleeve over the end of the input shaft that you'll need to get, otherwise it won't fit the diesel pilot. And a final note, the diesel bellhousings for 200 and 700 series cars are clocked differently so you'll need to make sure that your bellhousing comes off an M46 from a 740 or 760, not a 240.

Another thing you may struggle with is incompatibility of transmission mounting arragements -- all US 700-series diesels use a canted transmission mount that pairs with the canted engine mounts as a system, while later gas cars use more vertical, fluid-filled engine mounts and a vertical trans mount to match. I don't know how an M47 mounts in a 740, but if it has a vertical mount, you may need to find a way (perhaps using 240 parts?)... the first year for M47 was 1987 and IIRC the gassers had moved to the vertical mounts by then so this may indeed prove tricky. You'll also need all the parts for the clutch linkage (pedal, bracket, cable, electrical and vacuum switches for cruise if you want it to work right, console trim, shift boot, etc, etc, etc).

I also assume you already are aware of the M47's shortcomings and have plans for how to deal with them -- differences between series 1 and series 2 gearboxes, special oil requirements, 5th gear problems, etc. They're pretty easy to break, which is why they only were available in NA 8v and cars (even the B234F got an M46!), but if you can find a healthy one I imagine it could survive behind a stock D24T provided as drag racing isn't part of your plan. The thing to keep in mind is that later M47's are more robust than earlier ones, but late 700 series cars with manual shift are even more rare than earlier ones and '91 was the last year so 740s with M47-II transmissions really are hens' teeth. If you do get lucky and find a complete 700 series M47 package it will almost certainly be out of an earlier (late '80s) 740 which might mean you get the weaker tranny. In order to get the late M47, if that's what you want, into a 700 series diesel car, it might end up requiring purchasing a gas 240 transmission, a diesel 700 transmission, and all the 740 M47 parts a la carte...

Not trying to convince you not to do this, only pointing out that it will be quite a bit of parts-gathering and work! Putting in a diesel M46 would be much more straightforward, but comes with the tradeoffs of the M46. If you're intent on avoiding the M46 (which I can understand), then rather than going through a lot of effort to put in an M47, IMHO you might be better off adapting a T5 instead.

Out of curiosity, why do you want to convert to standard shift? Autobox failing, or just preference? Just as one other last thing to point out, in case you have not driven a D24T with a stick shift yet -- some people might argue that the ZF automatic behind the D24T is a much more refined setup overall. YMMV there. :p

[745 TurboGreasel]

I'm just going to leave this here:D
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w70/karlsson_6/DSC00384.jpg

[BluevanACD2005]

The title says 1983, but it could be a late year model that would be considered a 1984, I am not sure. I used to have a 1982 240 wagon with the NA D24 and M46, I think this is what made me want to avoid the M46. Gears 1 through 4 worked great. But the Electronic OD was flakey. I would rather have a regular 5-speed. I am not that familiar with the M47, I just knew it was simaller to the M46 and had a 'real' 5th gear.

I have nothing against the ZF 4HP22, I just favor a manual transmission over an automatic in general. I bought the car with 245K miles on it, and the transmssion seems to work great - fluid looks like new still. I have a spare D24T also coupled to a ZF 4HP22, with only 100K miles on them. My plan was to build up this engine and trans to swap into the car. I mainly just wanted to put a NA intake manifold on it, intercooler and possibly a better turbo.

Are there any shift kits for the 4HP22 out there? Maybe it would be easier to go that route instead?


Is that a M46 in the picture? It's hard to tell but I think I see the Electronic OD solenoid?

Thanks for the help,

Spenser

[anders]

There are lots of performance parts for the zf. The zf4hp22 was produced for something like 20 years and is in a large selection of cars and SUV's. It may take some time finding the parts though. I have heard rumors of some installing the upgraded 4hp24 internals into the 22 case.
In short, It's a wonderful transmission coupled to the d24t. The only transmission I would replace the zf with is a T5.

[745 TurboGreasel]

Is that a M46 in the picture? It's hard to tell but I think I see the Electronic OD solenoid?



Spenser
It's an M47 with with a Laycock overdrive off an M46.

Imo the electronic OD is simple and very reliable unless you put out 500+ foot pounds and back up with heavy trailers. There are only a few things that can go wrong with it, mostly in the wiring harness which consists of 2 switches, a solenoid, and a relay, and it has a screen that might need cleaning every decade or so.

[BluevanACD2005]

So with the M47 and OD you get 5 speeds and OD on top of that? The reason I am turned off to the M46 is the OD. Honestly I know I could have done more troubleshooting with the one I had... It would go into OD when the trans was cold and stay in indefinatly, but once you tried to put it into OD with the trans warmed up it wouldn't go in. I don't think it was an electronic problem, probably just a dirty screen like you mentioned. My theory was the fluid thinned out when it got warm, and something was too worn out to work with the thin fluid. The car was my daily driver at the time so I didn't want to tear into it that deep.

So with the T5 I would still be looking at a lot of work right? I would probably still need to fabricate a bell housing for it right?

Thanks,

Spenser

[ngoma]

What about the M90 (http://www.turbobricks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94325)?

[BluevanACD2005]

I forgot about the M90. Those had bell housings for the D24 right? They seem to be even less common than the M47 though.

I found a M47 for $500 I could buy, but I would still need a flywheel and bell housing, plus make all the clutch pedal/shifter/driveshaft parts too.

-Spenser

[ngoma]

Supra W58 (http://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~amh110/Supra/supra_in_volvo_240.htm)? Although I'm not so sure what's available for bellhousing.

[anders]

If your going to go to the hassle of a manual transmission swap, go with a t5. There are so many different gear ratios and build up parts for these it's crazy. T5's are easy to source and are everywhere and fairly cheep. Tremec is still building complete units.
You can use the d24 or d24t bell housing depending on what adapter you get.

The founder of the site did a t5 swap in his original zf car. That's the only 7xx series diesel car that I'm aware of sporting the T5. There is a build thread somewhere.

[BluevanACD2005]

Thanks Guys!

I realize I have a little more research to do before running around buying parts lol


-Spenser

[745 TurboGreasel]

The founder of the site did a t5 swap in his original zf car. That's the only 7xx series diesel car that I'm aware of sporting the T5. There is a build thread somewhere.
IIRC, He also blew it up.

[anders]

Yes, I think he had several problems with it. It sounded like it was a well used and abused transmission to begin with.
What a stock 302 in mustang is around 270 ft lbs? Stock d24t is putting out 165 ft lbs?
I would put a t5 against any m46 or m47.

You can get a WC T5 from a SN95 mustang for $200 any day of week. That transmission is rated for 300 ft lbs I think. Plus you can get them from a v6 car so it shouldn't be as abused.

The transmission Jason used was rated at 265 ft lbs.